V

[halplm]

For anyone who saw the original series in the early Eighties, or anyone who just likes Alien invasion conspiracy stories, the pilot of this at least was excellent. It looks like it might be one of the best new shows in recent years (it certainly seems to have the budget).

http://abc.go.com/shows/v/index

[Padme]

Hey the alien Anna is Morena Baccarin....of Firefly/Serenity. I knew I knew her from somewhere. Inara Serra is one of my favs...

[halplm]

Yeah, she also played Adria on Stargate SG-1. I was not sad to see her in another leading role

[Primula Baggins]

I will probably give it another try, but I thought the writing was a little weak. The show looked gorgeous, the effects were amazing, and the acting was good, but things happened that I just plain could not buy. And I'm usually an ace disbelief-suspender.

[sauronsfinger]

I agree with Prim. Every year there are shows which look as if they might be good and they tease us with eye-candy and we tune into the premier. And then we see that the writing is standard at best, and the acting is just so-so and its pretty much a slightly different version of what we had seen many times before over the years.

[Lalaith]

I knew I knew her from somewhere!!! Thanks, Padme!

Now, I just need to find time to watch it. I missed the premiere episode.

[Alatar]

I'm impressed with the production values, but not the direction.

The original was a pretty clear allegory on the rise of the Nazis. This one seemed to me to be missing that aspect entirely. If fact is seems to be more an anti-Obama thing. For example the really obvious use of "Hope" and "Universal Health Care" as messages from the duplicitous to the naive. I'd like to think its accidental, but I'm not convinced. I accept the idea of using drama to present political issues in a new light, but this seems pretty heavy handed.

Consider the lame "Tagging" scene where Erica challenges her son about spraying "V" for Visitor on some house. It was poorly explained, and showed him as simply a vandal, despite his claim that it was about "hope"? Makes no sense.

Then compare that to the scene from the original V.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbmyIzsCpk0

This has meaning. Power. It's an iconic moment. Thrown away for a cheap political jibe.

V is for Victory. Not "Visitors". They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

[halplm]

That scene in the original was halfway through the original story. Comparatively we're 5 minutes in. I expect the "v" tag will gain meaning for the resistance in the future.

But I'd hardly expect to judge the series after one episode, other than to say I'll be watching again this week.

[Primula Baggins]

I haven't seen the old version since the original broadcast, whenever that was, so I can't really compare them. I just thought there were structural problems in the first episode—people doing things that were just plain stupid and/or that didn't fit their characters because that would put them in danger for the sake of the story.

The almost instant acceptance of the Visitors was also "off" to me; though they tried to explain it, I found the explanation implausible at best. I won't say more for fear of spoilers.

[solicitr]

Apparently the script for the pilot was written in the summer/fall of 2007- so if you're seeing Obama references, it must be you.....

[Alatar]

Yeah, looks like it was just me:

As the original miniseries was inspired by the novel It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis and has been called "a modern retelling of how the Nazis rose to power in Germany,"[3] the re-imagined series has been accused of being an allegory of the presidency of Barack Obama.[16][17][18] In his review of the show, Troy Patterson of Slate points out that bloggers and journalists had noticed parallels between the show's premise and the Barack Obama administration, and writes that "if the show is to have the symbolic import that we expect from a science-fiction story, this is the only possible way to read V as a coherent text."[16] Lisa de Moraes of The Washington Post noted in her review that the fact the series was debuting on the one-year anniversary of Obama's election "was not lost on some ... TV critics" and also remarked that the use of phrases present in the series (such as "hope", "change", and "Universal Health Care" being offered by the Visitors) made it seem as though "Lou Dobbs had taken over the network."[17]

Chicago Tribune reviewer (and noted libertarian[19]) Glenn Garvin called the show, "controversial" but took a more down-the-middle approach, saying the series was "a barbed commentary on Obamania that will infuriate the president's supporters and delight his detractors."[18]

The show's cast and crew denies the charges of bias. While actress Baccarin acknowledges that she had modeled her character, Visitor leader Anna, after politicians, she and series executive producer Peters were surprised by the alleged "controversy." At a press conference at Summer TV Press Tour 2009, Peters said that the show was open to interpretation and that "people bring subjective thoughts to it ... but there is no particular agenda."[17] Bell agreed, stating that it was simply "a show about spaceships."[16]

I dunno. Its not like me to notice this stuff, so I'm guessing its pretty blatant if even I see it.

[Primula Baggins]

The parallels are certainly visible to me, though I don't necessarily believe they were intentional (or that it matters if they were).

[solicitr]

"I prefer history, real or feigned, with its varied applicability."

The story of free societies gulled by charlatans promising Enlightenment and Free Candy is a very, very old one. In fact Tolkien tells it twice.

[vison]

"I prefer history, real or feigned, with its varied applicability."

The story of free societies gulled by charlatans promising Enlightenment and Free Candy is a very, very old one. In fact Tolkien tells it twice.

Where?

[River]

The Elves went to Valinor and Men went to Númenor on the promises of the Valar.

Morgoth and Sauron made pretty promises too, but theirs were of power and glory and secret knowledge, not enlightenment and free candy.

[solicitr]

The most direct example is the "Tale of Adanel". The Second Voice (Morgoth) said,

"The world is full of marvellous riches which knowledge can unlock. Ye could have food more abundant and more delicious than the poor things ye now eat. Ye could have dwellings of ease, in which ye could keep light and shut out the night. Ye could be clad even as I....If ye wish to be like me, I will teach you." [...] But if any doubted or were impatient, he would bring and set before us all that we wished for. "I am the Giver of Gifts, and the gifts shall never fail so long as ye trust me."

Sauron of course also called himself the Lord of Gifts, Annatar, when he suborned the Noldor with promises of gnosis and their hearts' desire, the stoppage of Time.

Then for his next trick, Sauron

was crafty, well-skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force would not avail. Therefore he humbled himself before Ar-Pharazôn...for all that he said seemed fair and wise ... for now, having the ears of Men, Sauron gainsaid all that the Valar had taught

An so ultimately was introduced the cult of the "Giver of Freedom": "with spilling of blood and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor that he should release them from Death."

The seductive power of evil was one of Tolkien's principal themes, after all, and he embodied it in the Ring; "The way of the Ring to my heart is by pity, pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good. Do not tempt me!" said Gandalf. He at least recognized the trap, Acton's trap. "For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself."

"Even Sauron was not evil in the beginning;" and T went on (I believe in a letter) to explain that Sauron, like Saruman after him, was once genuinely a 'reformer.'

[vison]

The Elves went to Valinor and Men went to Númenor on the promises of the Valar.

Morgoth and Sauron made pretty promises too, but theirs were of power and glory and secret knowledge, not enlightenment and free candy.

Yes.

The Ring was Power, not the hope of knowledge. I think it is a pretty great stretch to call Sauron a "reformer". An underminer, a teacher of rebellion , a 'borer from within', maybe, but hardly a "reformer".

As for "the promise of release from death", what else is Christianity?

[sauronsfinger]

Each year there are TV shows that make a splash and then do a fade. Look at what happened with HEROES starting with their second season. Now its audience is a third of what it was during the first season. I suspect that we will see V do the same thing but only in a much shorter time span. It simply is not that good once you get beyond seeing really big ships over really big cities and the "thats kewl" effect.

And in my humble opinion, that female star who plays the head alien is not at atttractive. Lotsa luck building a following around her.

[Lalaith]

I do think she's prettier with long hair, but she's still a gorgeous woman either way.

[sauronsfinger]

still not my type at all...... I agree that the long hair is an improvement over that terrible haircut on V.