The new Star Trek film

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sun May 31, 2009 8:37 am

Teremia, you sum it up pretty exactly for me. I really enjoyed this film, but in function it definitely exists to get us to the point where the adventures can start.

I'm so glad to be able to look forward to them.

Hoping to see the movie again on Thursday afternoon, maybe.

Post by **yovargas** » Sun May 31, 2009 1:56 pm

Mighty fine review, Teremia.

Post by **Mrs.Underhill** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:26 pm

Primula Baggins wrote:Teremia, you sum it up pretty exactly for me. I really enjoyed this film, but in function it definitely exists to get us to the point where the adventures can start.

Oh yes! Adventures can start like right now! To wait for another 2 years for a sequel feels as excruciating as waiting for the next LotR movie.

Also - I would very much love to see a new ST TV show with that cast, but I know it's unrealistic to expect. But oh - see those guys on-screen every week or so, playing off each other - that's so much more satisfying than having an action movie every couple of years or so. In the end, it's not the action or pretty pictures that you remember, but the character moments.

Teremia - in regard to your spoiler (and should we still use spoiler colour?), I think that Old!Spock was so happy so see Kirk again, after what - 70 years alone, with all his former friends dead, that it would've outweighed his sadness of losing the original timeline.
To think about it - having to live twice as long as your dearest friends is a curse. I couldn't even imagine how he managed and what a lonely life would that have been, with only sense of duty and professionalism to uphold him.
And of course he would be shocked by Vulcan gone, but thruthfully, he lived his life, so for him it wouldn't be so devastating as for the younger folks.

OK, now to Picard-Kirk debate. I'm a Picard girl. I love his nobility, his intellect, and his adorable bald head.

I didn't like Kirk at all when I watched ST-TOS originally, thought him obnoxious. But strangely, this new movie made me appreciate Kirk more, and now I'm rewatching TOS and loving him too, a lot! He's a cheeky bastard, but so adorable, and so epically great with Spock (ahem), and McCoy.
I also rewatched ST movies 2, 3, and 4 and Kirk there was poignant and serious, and their friendship with Spock so endearing - I loved watching them as old men doting over each other. Yes, I love mellowed, sadder, older Kirk.
But Picard still wins in Captains' competition.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:33 pm

For me, that spoiler scene echoed the scene at the beginning of The Once and Future King, where the boy Arthur meets Merlin for the first time. But because Merlin lives backwards, this is the last time Merlin will see Arthur. It's a poignant scene—two dear and lifelong friends, disjointed in time; one knowing what they will come to mean to each other, the other having no idea.

As for spoilers, I'll just ask: is anyone reading this thread who still wants us to use spoiler text? The movie's been out for a few weeks, and I would think people really eager for it would either have gotten out to see it or would have been spoiled elsewhere. But I'd like to allow a day or two for people to register any objections.

Post by **MithLuin** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:54 pm

I have now watched the entire original series, and I think I'm going to follow Mrs. Underhill's lead and re-watch the movies now that I know who these people are

. I'm not sure I can stomach V'Ger, so maybe jumping right into Wrath of Khan is a good idea. I remember watching the 4th movie when I was in high school, and thinking it was so funny that they dropped a Russian in the US during the Cold War and had him wander around saying, "We are looking for the nuclear wessels" - which was all history by the time I was watching the movie....

Why do I feel too young for all of this now?

I mean, I remember the Berlin Wall coming down, so it's not like I didn't live through that...but I was in elementary school at the time.

Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:00 pm

Prim, I haven't seen the film yet, but I read all the spoiler text anyway. But there might be others that don't.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:26 pm

Yes—that's why I asked the question, and why I think we should give people a chance to object.

Post by **axordil** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:28 pm

How long has it been open in non-US markets?

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:13 pm

I believe it opened simultaneously in many countries worldwide. They're doing that more and more now.

Post by **Mrs.Underhill** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:22 pm

MithLuin wrote:I remember watching the 4th movie when I was in high school, and thinking it was so funny that they dropped a Russian in the US during the Cold War and had him wander around saying, "We are looking for the nuclear wessels" - which was all history by the time I was watching the movie....

What's amazing is that when they filmed the movie, in 1985, they didn't realize that that was the last year of the Cold War, and that by the time the movie would be out, Cold War would be over!

You gotta give it to Roddenbery that his ideas of people uniting, getting over cold wars and prejudices, his faith in humanity - were not idealistic but realistic. And that Checkov and Uhura in the team won't seem strange just 20 years later.

Post by **MithLuin** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:42 pm

Yeah, in the future, people have expanded xenophobia, so that racism is not directed against other members of your own species, but against people from different planets. They did tease Spock mercilessly about being half-Vulcan. True, he invited it in some ways, but....

The way the Klingons are viewed with such deep suspicion also seems irrational.

I suppose I am being cynical, but I guess he didn't change human nature, just gave them a more peaceful homeworld.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:13 pm

I believe there was a dictum straight from Roddenberry that no episode of Star Trek could show conflict between human cultures. We were indeed supposed to have gotten beyond that. After his death the rule eroded a bit.

I often regretted that humans were so bland, and that the rule made it necessary (for drama's sake) to have "bad-guy" aliens whom the humans had to overcome by sheer moral superiority.

Post by **MithLuin** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:19 pm

Actually, that 'prime directive' made it necessary for strange alien beings and diseases to take over the people on the ship so that temporary madness would give the relevant plot drama

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:26 pm

And there was the running series of stories involving the evidently Roddenberry-less parallel universe where everyone had an evil twin.

I really liked the two episodes of—was it Enterprise? Wow, I think so—that were set in that universe and for which they redid the opening credits from that universe's perspective and history. Leni Riefenstahl in space.

Post by **solicitr** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:44 am

What's amazing is that when they filmed the movie, in 1985, they didn't realize that that was the last year of the Cold War, and that by the time the movie would be out, Cold War would be over!

Erm, that would be 1991.

Post by **MithLuin** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:11 am

The Berlin Wall came down in Nov. of '89, but Mikhail Gorbachev took over the reins in 1985. Even if not over, the Cold War was winding down throughout the late '80s. That is why people of my age never took it seriously - we were never scared the Russians were going to nuke us.

Well, I've just watched Wrath of Khan and am on to the next one. I like free movies from the library, but they aren't quite as 'free' when you have to pay off the old fines first...ah well.

They all have 'Mirror' in the title. Evil!Checkov and evil!Sulu were interesting, but evil!Spock was almost the same, which was even more sinister - he was a bit more ruthless, but still logical....

Post by **narya** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:31 am

Mrs. U, concerning your comments on age and loss (can't quote it because the white letters show up with a grey background):

We lose friends and gain new ones all the time. I can't imagine Spock being alone for 70 years after his human friends died. I've outlived several of my dear friends, but life goes on, and I'm finding new friends every year. And I imagine losing all of Earth would be devastating beyond words to me at any age.

Am I the only one who liked Sisko as a captain, and Scotty?

But I agree with everything else you said

Post by **Mrs.Underhill** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:32 am

solicitr wrote:
What's amazing is that when they filmed the movie, in 1985, they didn't realize that that was the last year of the Cold War, and that by the time the movie would be out, Cold War would be over!
Erm, that would be 1991.

Nope. It was 1986, from our side of the Iron Curtain. With Gorbachev starting Perestrojka, we knew it's over. I lived through it all during my college years, and 1986 was the year when everything changed. The rest were details, steps in the new direction already established, so to say.

Narya - it's amazing, I just wanted to post the same thing about Spock's later years!
Because I just finished watching the absolutely great "Enterprise Incident" episode! Youza! Amazing stuff, the best female character in TOS so far (the Romulan commander), and the hottest coming on scene in the whole TOS, with her and Spock. Whew. I'm still fanning myself - that was intense. And so intelligent.
And after this episode, I somehow feel less worried about Spock's loneliness during his long years as a Romulan ambassador.

Them having similar lifespans and all...

And agree about (spoilers) losing Vulcan, of course. I just thought that with Katrik Arc (sic?) being saved, and Spock Prime being close to putting his Katra over there himself (see me sporting a new mythology, heh), he might be looking forward to that somehow, finding solace in joining spirits of his race.

Post by **MithLuin** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:58 pm

How to seduce a Vulcan: explain to him why it makes a lot of sense for him to choose you. Emphasize the research opportunities. Hehe, she was the only one who ever tried to reach him on an intellectual level. I mean, think of the other versions - magic plant spores that completely destroy your self-control? I can't picture him forgiving the loss of dignity that goes along with that. Though I did like 'This Side of Paradise' for showing how useless Kirk was on his own - he always relies on his friends, and when they abandon him, he doesn't know what to do. What is a captain without his crew?

Oh, and Personal Log of a Red Shirt

Post by **eborr** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:36 am

Just to say I really enjoyed this film far more than most I have seen recently