And, it's at 96% on Rotten Tomatoes with almost 200 reviews. That is rather amazing for a special-effects blockbuster. It reminds me of those little New Zealand films that came out a few years back. The ones with the elves and fairies?
The new Star Trek film
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Primula Baggins
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The new Star Trek film
Two of my kids saw it last night. The film-student SF lover said it was stunning. The non-fan said it was much, much better than she expected. I suspect many non-fans will enjoy it , and almost all fans, unless they are timeline purists. I hope to, when I finally see it. And I hope this is a fresh start, literally. They wrung all they could out of the old timeline and the old actors; why not start a new one?
And, it's at 96% on Rotten Tomatoes with almost 200 reviews. That is rather amazing for a special-effects blockbuster. It reminds me of those little New Zealand films that came out a few years back. The ones with the elves and fairies?
And, it's at 96% on Rotten Tomatoes with almost 200 reviews. That is rather amazing for a special-effects blockbuster. It reminds me of those little New Zealand films that came out a few years back. The ones with the elves and fairies?
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Fairies . . . . yes. . . . . hawtt fairies, as I recall . . . 
I'm no purist as regards Star Trek, and I confess that I pretty much loathed William Shatner in those days. (I don't loathe him any more.) I thought there were a lot of admirable things about Star Trek and a lot of silly things.
Still, it was science fiction and it was for adults and that was a lot, in those days.
Haven't heard from my chum yet. She said she'd call me as soon as she was home. Which could hardly be yet, come to think of it.
I'm no purist as regards Star Trek, and I confess that I pretty much loathed William Shatner in those days. (I don't loathe him any more.) I thought there were a lot of admirable things about Star Trek and a lot of silly things.
Still, it was science fiction and it was for adults and that was a lot, in those days.
Haven't heard from my chum yet. She said she'd call me as soon as she was home. Which could hardly be yet, come to think of it.
Dig deeper.
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Primula Baggins
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Teremia, I don't know. My kids are older, so I don't have those filters in place at the moment; and I haven't seen it. And you know how it is: you never know what's going to be Too Scary for a particular child.
Are you familiar with the KidsInMind (? I don't have the bookmark on this computer) website? It gives pretty thorough descriptions of violence/sexuality/drug-related/strong language elements for hundreds of movies, in an unspoilerish way, and I used to find it very helpful. There are PG-13s and PG-13s, after all. I don't know if they would have a listing for this one yet, though.
vison, I used to watch the old Star Trek with my mom every week. My best friend was also a fan and we used to write serial illustrated fanfic back and forth (though we had no idea that was what it was; fanfic hadn't been invented yet, I think). Yes, there was a lot of silliness in that show, but at its best it was very fine, sometimes as science fiction and sometimes just as a fun adventure with characters I loved. It became a part of the "language" I share with my brother, too. Just the other day I was helping him with a science-fictional thing (he's a writer, too, but hasn't written long-form SF before) and I said of a particular bit of dialog that it was a little too "'Kiss'? What is 'kiss'?" And he laughed, because he knew exactly the kind of cheesy sci-fi-ish quality I meant.
I guess what has me jazzed to see this is not that this is a Star Trek movie; as much as I love Trek in general, most of the movies have been meh or worse as movies, saved for me only because they were Star Trek. (First Contact is a decent science fiction movie in its own right.) No, what excites me is the number of people who've said that the movie takes them right back to why they fell in love with Star Trek in the first place: the sense of wonder and excitement and unbounded possibility. That's the pure stuff, the reason I love SF enough to write it. I hope it's true.
Are you familiar with the KidsInMind (? I don't have the bookmark on this computer) website? It gives pretty thorough descriptions of violence/sexuality/drug-related/strong language elements for hundreds of movies, in an unspoilerish way, and I used to find it very helpful. There are PG-13s and PG-13s, after all.
I don't know if they would have a listing for this one yet, though.vison, I used to watch the old Star Trek with my mom every week. My best friend was also a fan and we used to write serial illustrated fanfic back and forth (though we had no idea that was what it was; fanfic hadn't been invented yet, I think). Yes, there was a lot of silliness in that show, but at its best it was very fine, sometimes as science fiction and sometimes just as a fun adventure with characters I loved. It became a part of the "language" I share with my brother, too. Just the other day I was helping him with a science-fictional thing (he's a writer, too, but hasn't written long-form SF before) and I said of a particular bit of dialog that it was a little too "'Kiss'? What is 'kiss'?" And he laughed, because he knew exactly the kind of cheesy sci-fi-ish quality I meant.
I guess what has me jazzed to see this is not that this is a Star Trek movie; as much as I love Trek in general, most of the movies have been meh or worse as movies, saved for me only because they were Star Trek. (First Contact is a decent science fiction movie in its own right.) No, what excites me is the number of people who've said that the movie takes them right back to why they fell in love with Star Trek in the first place: the sense of wonder and excitement and unbounded possibility. That's the pure stuff, the reason I love SF enough to write it. I hope it's true.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Primula Baggins
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We were nine. I'm sure we knew sex existed, but I don't recall giving it much thought. The closest we came was the running gag that Capt. Kirk (a minor character for us) kissed anything female, anywhere, any time. Friendships between female characters who had really cool adventures together with aliens and stuff were tons more important than those icky guys.
I'm sure we knew sex existed, but I don't recall giving it much thought. The closest we came was the running gag that Capt. Kirk (a minor character for us) kissed anything female, anywhere, any time. Friendships between female characters who had really cool adventures together with aliens and stuff were tons more important than those icky guys.“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Primula Baggins
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You had the same obsessions I did, a little later on.
I outgrew Chekov. I don't think I'm quite over Spock.
But I should just give it time. It's only been 43 years.
I outgrew Chekov. I don't think I'm quite over Spock.
But I should just give it time. It's only been 43 years.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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solicitr
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I didn't encounter TOS until college, after ST:TMP (my first experience)- so I was inclined to be cynical, and was always a bullet-counter anyway.
So I never could understand how this hyper-advanced techno civilization could deploy star cruisers with such bleedin' unreliable engines and weapons systems, always breaking down at the wrong time.
(Much like the observation that the Galactic Empire recruited Stormtroopers based on their complete inability to hit the broad side of a barn).
So I never could understand how this hyper-advanced techno civilization could deploy star cruisers with such bleedin' unreliable engines and weapons systems, always breaking down at the wrong time.
(Much like the observation that the Galactic Empire recruited Stormtroopers based on their complete inability to hit the broad side of a barn).
Most kids who engage in fanfic don't know the word for what they're doing. It's just writing more about a story they like, or in the case of Sunny, playing at being Mary Sue 
.
I don't think I'll share what story I started coming up with fanfic for
.
As for when fan fiction was officially 'invented', I'll go with 1967 - at any rate, a fanzine about Spock (including stories written by fans) came out that year [according to wikipedia]. This is not to say that people didn't make up stories based on books and movies prior to that (technically, Milton's 'Paradise Lost' could be seen as biblical fanfic...), but that Star Trek fans went to the effort of sharing their stories with each other, making it more of a social phenomena rather than just a private amusement.
Certainly, the internet expanded this greatly!
I liked the Next Generation a lot, but never really got into the Original series. Part of the problem is that I always thought of Kirk as a complete jerk, so that kinda ruined things. I liked most of the other characters well enough. Spock, certainly. (Then again, I also like Data, and Dr. Zack Addy from Bones, so I guess this is a trend....)
. I don't think I'll share what story I started coming up with fanfic for
. As for when fan fiction was officially 'invented', I'll go with 1967 - at any rate, a fanzine about Spock (including stories written by fans) came out that year [according to wikipedia]. This is not to say that people didn't make up stories based on books and movies prior to that (technically, Milton's 'Paradise Lost' could be seen as biblical fanfic...), but that Star Trek fans went to the effort of sharing their stories with each other, making it more of a social phenomena rather than just a private amusement.
Certainly, the internet expanded this greatly!
I liked the Next Generation a lot, but never really got into the Original series. Part of the problem is that I always thought of Kirk as a complete jerk, so that kinda ruined things. I liked most of the other characters well enough. Spock, certainly. (Then again, I also like Data, and Dr. Zack Addy from Bones, so I guess this is a trend....)
Last edited by MithLuin on Sat May 09, 2009 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Primula Baggins
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Ah, but where would the drama be if the technology were reliable? Someone who wrote for the show—can't remember who (David Gerrold, maybe)—complained that the first thing you always had to do was break down the system somehow. "Otherwise, at the first sign of trouble Kirk flips open his communicator and shouts 'Scotty! Save my ass!' and the show is over."
It's the tension between the temptation to give science fictional characters amazing omnipotent technology and the fact that it's hard to tell interesting stories about omnipotent people.
It's the tension between the temptation to give science fictional characters amazing omnipotent technology and the fact that it's hard to tell interesting stories about omnipotent people.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Primula Baggins
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Our stuff was just the urge to tell more stories in a world that fascinated us. They were Mary Sues in the sense that we got to be on the Enterprise, but the characters we invented (other than being really prettyMithLuin wrote:Most kids who engage in fanfic don't know the word for what they're doing. It's just writing more about a story they like, or in the case of Sunny, playing at being Mary Sue
) weren't supposed to be brilliantly talented and the characters on the show didn't fall in love with them, ewwww. It was just the whole package of being adult, out on your own, traveling from new planet to new planet in a ship with all your friends along.soli, I believe there is nothing to be done about the Red Shirts. After all, you have to kill people or nobody will believe your main characters are really in danger. And if the sacrificial victims speak on camera, you have to pay them more. (Apparently, screaming in agonized horror doesn't count as a line. . . .) So it's a cheap solution, and obviously the old Star Trek was all about finding cheap solutions.
I just like that they also hired the occasional good writer. Real science fiction writers like Theodore Sturgeon and Harlan Ellison wrote some of the classic episodes. They didn't just assume that they could come up with that sci-fi crap themselves in a twenty-minute story conference once a week. When they did it that way, it showed.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Hehe, what's funny was that my sister and my stories didn't feature self-insertion. So I think it's funny that that's where everyone else starts. Granted, I was maybe 14 and she was 12, so a little older than you. And we didn't write ours down, we just stayed up late at night in each other's rooms telling stories to each other. So, maybe more RP than fanfic. She was a born story-teller, though, and had been telling me stories since she was 2-3 years old. The dilemmas we put our poor Barbies through.... We did give our stories titles, though, like "The Return of the Super Bad Guy, part 8."
I realize using Mary Sue is a loaded term (since it's never a compliment), but I see three factors that have to be in place: self-insertion, over-the-top characteristics (beauty or skills or magic powers, take your pick), and a warping effect on the plot - the story revolves around her, either romantically or in some other way, but it's clearly all!about!her, and the other characters behave accordingly. Writing Mary Sue stories are fun for writers, so there's nothing wrong with doing that from time to time (especially as a young girl just starting to write!), but tend to get old for readers. Since Sunny said Checkov and Spock were always falling in love with her in her stories, I figured they were probably that type of story, but maybe not.
soli, so what happens when a Stormtrooper shoots at a Red Shirt?
I realize using Mary Sue is a loaded term (since it's never a compliment), but I see three factors that have to be in place: self-insertion, over-the-top characteristics (beauty or skills or magic powers, take your pick), and a warping effect on the plot - the story revolves around her, either romantically or in some other way, but it's clearly all!about!her, and the other characters behave accordingly. Writing Mary Sue stories are fun for writers, so there's nothing wrong with doing that from time to time (especially as a young girl just starting to write!), but tend to get old for readers. Since Sunny said Checkov and Spock were always falling in love with her in her stories, I figured they were probably that type of story, but maybe not.
soli, so what happens when a Stormtrooper shoots at a Red Shirt?
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Primula Baggins
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I don't know how direct our "self-insertion" was, but we each had "our" character, who was the focus when it was our turn to write; and our characters were best friends, as we were. Oh, and we both had a "thing" for Spock even if it never affected the plots. It certainly affected the unflattering portraits we (literally) drew of Nurse Chapel.
And . . . we're seeing it today after all. In fact, we're about to leave for the theater!
And . . . we're seeing it today after all. In fact, we're about to leave for the theater!
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Rowanberry
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Mith, it's really rare that you and your sister managed to avoid Mary Sues. ST:TOS inspired me to come up with a few blatant ones; although I never wrote the stories down, I still remember them quite well. I swooned for Kirk and Spock in turns, and of course they ended up with my self-insertions...
The new movie has got quite positive critics, and could be that I'll go and see it at some point.
The new movie has got quite positive critics, and could be that I'll go and see it at some point.
See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.
~ Lao Tzu
Well, let us know what you think! (The fact that I had to look up who Nurse Chapel even is clues me in that I really don't know anything about the Original Series....)
Well, rowan, it's not like we wrote these stories down, so there is no evidence whether or not we did that. I know that at the time, I didn't see myself in the story, and the character who was 'mine' in our dialogues was male. [Not unlike our current RP with Maedhros, to be honest!] He certainly took on traits of other characters I liked and a guy I had a crush on. But I don't recall ever giving him a romantic interest in the story. My sister controlled two (canon) characters who were a couple, so I'd have to ask her whether or not she saw herself in the girl or not. We did eventually introduce an original character who was female (towards the end, at which point there was little if any connection left to the original story - our next step was to toss the last connections to the source material and create wholly original characters and settings). Her name was Arda (hey, this was me, after all), but I can't remember very much about her. She may have been beautiful or powerful or something, but I've lost the plot of the story, so I can't remember her role in it at all. Just her name. The basic plot was fighting off bad guys and saving the world; I think they were on a different planet by the time she showed up, but...I really don't recall. We were working on the premise that the original story could be greatly improved.
Well, rowan, it's not like we wrote these stories down, so there is no evidence whether or not we did that. I know that at the time, I didn't see myself in the story, and the character who was 'mine' in our dialogues was male. [Not unlike our current RP with Maedhros, to be honest!] He certainly took on traits of other characters I liked and a guy I had a crush on
. But I don't recall ever giving him a romantic interest in the story. My sister controlled two (canon) characters who were a couple, so I'd have to ask her whether or not she saw herself in the girl or not. We did eventually introduce an original character who was female (towards the end, at which point there was little if any connection left to the original story - our next step was to toss the last connections to the source material and create wholly original characters and settings). Her name was Arda (hey, this was me, after all), but I can't remember very much about her. She may have been beautiful or powerful or something, but I've lost the plot of the story, so I can't remember her role in it at all. Just her name. The basic plot was fighting off bad guys and saving the world; I think they were on a different planet by the time she showed up, but...I really don't recall. We were working on the premise that the original story could be greatly improved.
Last edited by MithLuin on Sun May 10, 2009 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Primula Baggins
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<floats in blissfully>
I'm back.
And so, incidentally, is Star Trek.
Mr. Prim, not a Trekker, thought it was excellent as well. It's a fun summer action SF movie, well made, with lots of humor and excitement.
It's also the best Star Trek movie ever, hands down. I hope they go right on making them, with this cast. It really does have the flavor of the old show, with a modern, crazy energy. And because
SPOILER TEXT
they've permanently changed the time line, now anything can happen. They don't have to bend all their storylines to end up at any Star Trek we ever knew. Yet I think it will be, in spirit, closer to the old show than anything else has been, but with an edgier, funnier, younger vibe to it that works really well.
Oh, and although I completely did not expect this, it made me choke up when
MORE SPOILER TEXT
at the very end, we heard the "old show" music for the first time and Leonard Nimoy's voice saying "Space . . . the final frontier. . . ." Oh man, it's getting me again. <wibble>
Yes, I love Star Trek. But you don't have to love Star Trek to have fun seeing this movie. I highly recommend it.
(Teremia, if you haven't made your decision yet—some of the scary violent bits were emotionally intense, though there was no graphic gore. I would take an eleven-year-old who wasn't actually timid. I don't think it was scary on the level of the LotR films, and I took kids younger than 11 to those.)
I'm back.
And so, incidentally, is Star Trek.
Mr. Prim, not a Trekker, thought it was excellent as well. It's a fun summer action SF movie, well made, with lots of humor and excitement.
It's also the best Star Trek movie ever, hands down. I hope they go right on making them, with this cast. It really does have the flavor of the old show, with a modern, crazy energy. And because
SPOILER TEXT
they've permanently changed the time line, now anything can happen. They don't have to bend all their storylines to end up at any Star Trek we ever knew. Yet I think it will be, in spirit, closer to the old show than anything else has been, but with an edgier, funnier, younger vibe to it that works really well.
Oh, and although I completely did not expect this, it made me choke up when
MORE SPOILER TEXT
at the very end, we heard the "old show" music for the first time and Leonard Nimoy's voice saying "Space . . . the final frontier. . . ." Oh man, it's getting me again. <wibble>
Yes, I love Star Trek. But you don't have to love Star Trek to have fun seeing this movie. I highly recommend it.
(Teremia, if you haven't made your decision yet—some of the scary violent bits were emotionally intense, though there was no graphic gore. I would take an eleven-year-old who wasn't actually timid. I don't think it was scary on the level of the LotR films, and I took kids younger than 11 to those.)
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
It depends on the kid. I know plenty of 11 year olds who watched Nightmare on Elmstreet and Friday the 13th (cause I was younger than that then 
), as well as parents who took a kindergartener to see the Passion of the Christ 
My own dad brought home 'Batman' (cause it was on sale...) and showed it to my younger sisters and I - I was 8, so they were 4 and 6.
Glad you enjoyed the movie, Prim! I doubt I'll see it (still haven't watched the 'new' Indiana Jones....), but I'm glad to hear it's a fun movie.
), as well as parents who took a kindergartener to see the Passion of the Christ My own dad brought home 'Batman' (cause it was on sale...) and showed it to my younger sisters and I - I was 8, so they were 4 and 6. Glad you enjoyed the movie, Prim! I doubt I'll see it (still haven't watched the 'new' Indiana Jones....), but I'm glad to hear it's a fun movie.