Watchmen
Watchmen
I read this a couple years ago and am re-reading it now in preparation for the movie. I am glad to find it is still every bit the artistic masterpiece I recall it being. I am extremely curios about the movie but have very low expectations. I'm mainly reading it now to protect from a bad movie botching my memory of the brilliant book.
So, any fans? Anybody excited/dreading the movie?
(PS - I'm trying avoid hearing much about the movie till I see it so, movie-wise, please keep this thread 100% spoiler-free.)
So, any fans? Anybody excited/dreading the movie?
(PS - I'm trying avoid hearing much about the movie till I see it so, movie-wise, please keep this thread 100% spoiler-free.)
- Hachimitsu
- Formerly Wilma
- Posts: 942
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:36 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Reviews over here have been very positive. One of the Irish reviewers is a huge fan, read it 20 years ago etc. He said it was brilliant but he was still slightly disappointed. I expect it will be very much like the LotR movies. Some fans will love it, some will hate it, but I expect most will say "Brilliant adaptation that missed the mark in places".
And really thats about the most anyone can hope for. Quite simply, my perfect LotR won't be yours, and yov's perfect Watchmen won't be someone else's.
And really thats about the most anyone can hope for. Quite simply, my perfect LotR won't be yours, and yov's perfect Watchmen won't be someone else's.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
- Angbasdil
- The man, the myth, the monkey.
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:37 am
- Location: Woodstock GA
Mrs. Ang and I have a date, tickets are bought and waiting in the virtual kiosk. And I am extremely geeked out over this. For those that haven't read it, there's not enough hyperbole on the entire net to express the impact the graphic novel had on the comic book world. To many comic book fans, Watchmen was life-altering in the same way LOTR was for many of us. I know it changed the way I viewed superheroes, and I had to reread it twice to get the full impact. I suspect I'll have to go back and reread it again next week.
All indications are that this is a very faithful adaptation, maybe too much so. The most common complaints that I've read are that Snyder was so faithful in the details that he lost the overall themes, and that the film is so dense that it's hard to keep up with it all. Fan reviews have been mostly positive, but Alatar said it well - some will love it, some will hate it.
Spoiler hint ahead:
For fans of the GN, there is one very significant change. It's not necessarily a change in the plot, but a change in what plot device moves the plot at that point.
MAJOR SPOILER:
Snyder got rid of the "squid" that Ozy uses to wreak havoc. Ozy still wreaks havoc, just in a different way. Personally, I always found the squid to be kinda "comic-booky", so if I were going to change one thing it would be the squid. We'll see how well it works tonight.
I'll give y'all a fan's review tonight or tomorrow, along with my wife's non-fan thoughts.
All indications are that this is a very faithful adaptation, maybe too much so. The most common complaints that I've read are that Snyder was so faithful in the details that he lost the overall themes, and that the film is so dense that it's hard to keep up with it all. Fan reviews have been mostly positive, but Alatar said it well - some will love it, some will hate it.
Spoiler hint ahead:
For fans of the GN, there is one very significant change. It's not necessarily a change in the plot, but a change in what plot device moves the plot at that point.
MAJOR SPOILER:
Snyder got rid of the "squid" that Ozy uses to wreak havoc. Ozy still wreaks havoc, just in a different way. Personally, I always found the squid to be kinda "comic-booky", so if I were going to change one thing it would be the squid. We'll see how well it works tonight.
I'll give y'all a fan's review tonight or tomorrow, along with my wife's non-fan thoughts.
- axordil
- Pleasantly Twisted
- Posts: 8999
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
- Location: Black Creek Bottoms
- Contact:
I posted a YouTube rendition of what it COULD have been like over at B77. Here's a non-embedded link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w
ax -- that was really funny!
ang -- well, you're in the theater right this minute, by my calculation, so you'll soon be able to give us the scoop. But a lot of what I love about the graphic novel is its "graphicness," not in the sense of gore, but in the sense of its layout on the page, the incredible intelligence with which the images are put together.
And that tension between the still image and the moving story just can't have made it into the film.
So that's one thing.
The trailer I saw made it all look like a generic action film, and sort of cheesy at that.
Plus, the DELETED ITEM is actually something I really rather like, in its ugly obscenity.
Are all the [Wizard of] Oz references still there in the film?
I'm pulling up a comfy chair and waiting here till you come back with the Full Report!
ang -- well, you're in the theater right this minute, by my calculation, so you'll soon be able to give us the scoop. But a lot of what I love about the graphic novel is its "graphicness," not in the sense of gore, but in the sense of its layout on the page, the incredible intelligence with which the images are put together.
And that tension between the still image and the moving story just can't have made it into the film.
So that's one thing.
The trailer I saw made it all look like a generic action film, and sort of cheesy at that.
Plus, the DELETED ITEM is actually something I really rather like, in its ugly obscenity.
Are all the [Wizard of] Oz references still there in the film?
I'm pulling up a comfy chair and waiting here till you come back with the Full Report!
I love the graphic novel! I'm looking forward to this!
I wanted to watch this at midnight tonight but Princess said she's not going with me today because she doesn't want to watch it with "nerds and fan boys!" I go "Uhm....watch it! You're hurting my fan boy feelings already."
So I'm still deciding whether to go alone and be the fan boy that I am, hopefully the line up is not too long or wait awhile until the fanfare dies down a bit. Hmmmmm....
I wanted to watch this at midnight tonight but Princess said she's not going with me today because she doesn't want to watch it with "nerds and fan boys!" I go "Uhm....watch it! You're hurting my fan boy feelings already."
So I'm still deciding whether to go alone and be the fan boy that I am, hopefully the line up is not too long or wait awhile until the fanfare dies down a bit. Hmmmmm....
“Lawyers are the only persons in whom ignorance of the law is not punished.” - Jeremy Bentham (1748 - 1832)
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I used to buy and read comic books when I was a kid, until my parents shamed me out of it. I loved those books. They were the most fun ever. When I was five and I had twelve cents I would walk to the neighborhood grocery on the corner and get Wonder Woman or Superman. A little later it was Marvel—Fantastic Four or Spiderman, mostly. I liked the humanity of the Marvel heroes.
Then, as I said, I stopped feeling comfortable buying and reading them, when I was ten or so.
Now . . . I have both WATCHMEN and DARK KNIGHT, both (I am assured) classics of the genre—and I haven't gotten through either one. It's not residual shame; they just don't hold my attention. I have no idea why. I really don't. I'm not a snob. I'm not blind to graphics. I can enjoy comic books. I like a nice violent emotional entertaining story as much as the next geek. Heck, I write that kind of thing myself.
I just can't seem to keep my eyes on the page.
I know I'm missing something. I'll keep trying.
Then, as I said, I stopped feeling comfortable buying and reading them, when I was ten or so.
Now . . . I have both WATCHMEN and DARK KNIGHT, both (I am assured) classics of the genre—and I haven't gotten through either one. It's not residual shame; they just don't hold my attention. I have no idea why. I really don't. I'm not a snob. I'm not blind to graphics. I can enjoy comic books. I like a nice violent emotional entertaining story as much as the next geek. Heck, I write that kind of thing myself.
I just can't seem to keep my eyes on the page.
I know I'm missing something. I'll keep trying.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Angbasdil
- The man, the myth, the monkey.
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:37 am
- Location: Woodstock GA
Wow.
Just... wow
I'm still processing this full frontal assault on the senses that is Zach Snyder's Watchmen. It's epic, it's graphic, and the camera is unflinching. But before I get into details, let me go off on a bit of a tangent.
My wife is very much not a comic book fan. It's not the stories, it's the medium itself she doesn't like. She actually likes superhero movies, and action movies in general. Her favorite form of escapism is a film with explosions, car chases and a high body count. But she's a very visual person, and when she reads she sees the story unfold in her head. So a medium that draws the pictures for you on the page just feels wrong to her. I OTOH am not that visual, so I enjoy the medium. With that in mind...
Teremia may be glad to hear that the film's major flaw is that it is too faithful to the source. Not in the story or details, but in the way it is put up on the screen. It just feels like a grahic novel. It feels like a great graphic novel. Maybe so much so that it never quite feels like a great film. (I'm too close to the source material to say that for sure, but that's my wife's opinion.) Snyder uses stop motion and slow motion to linger in the same places that the GN readers' eyes would linger, and he frames his shots like the panels of a comic book. As an example, in the GN there's a large panel showing the Comedian going out the window. In the film, the camera pauses there for a second, then the Comedian falls as his iconic smiley face button hangs in the air for an instant before following him down. And every geek in the theater silently says "woohoo!" So in summary, it may or may not be a great film, but it is a great comic book movie.
My wife's summary: The characters were great. The story was interesting and thought provoking. The production was way over the top. If it were based on a novel, she would read it, but like I said, the GN medium just doesn't work for her.
My summary:
And Teremia should go see it.
So should Prim.
just sayin'
I'll go more in depth later.
Just... wow
I'm still processing this full frontal assault on the senses that is Zach Snyder's Watchmen. It's epic, it's graphic, and the camera is unflinching. But before I get into details, let me go off on a bit of a tangent.
My wife is very much not a comic book fan. It's not the stories, it's the medium itself she doesn't like. She actually likes superhero movies, and action movies in general. Her favorite form of escapism is a film with explosions, car chases and a high body count. But she's a very visual person, and when she reads she sees the story unfold in her head. So a medium that draws the pictures for you on the page just feels wrong to her. I OTOH am not that visual, so I enjoy the medium. With that in mind...
Teremia may be glad to hear that the film's major flaw is that it is too faithful to the source. Not in the story or details, but in the way it is put up on the screen. It just feels like a grahic novel. It feels like a great graphic novel. Maybe so much so that it never quite feels like a great film. (I'm too close to the source material to say that for sure, but that's my wife's opinion.) Snyder uses stop motion and slow motion to linger in the same places that the GN readers' eyes would linger, and he frames his shots like the panels of a comic book. As an example, in the GN there's a large panel showing the Comedian going out the window. In the film, the camera pauses there for a second, then the Comedian falls as his iconic smiley face button hangs in the air for an instant before following him down. And every geek in the theater silently says "woohoo!" So in summary, it may or may not be a great film, but it is a great comic book movie.
My wife's summary: The characters were great. The story was interesting and thought provoking. The production was way over the top. If it were based on a novel, she would read it, but like I said, the GN medium just doesn't work for her.
My summary:
And Teremia should go see it.
So should Prim.
just sayin'
I'll go more in depth later.
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I probably will see it, Ang. I feel much as your wife does about comic-book and action movies. The ones that are well made are really fun, and I usually try to see them.
I'm a little reluctant about gore, though, and I keep hearing this one is in-your-face violent.
I'm a little reluctant about gore, though, and I keep hearing this one is in-your-face violent.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Hachimitsu
- Formerly Wilma
- Posts: 942
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:36 pm
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Not to mention nakedness. I think there was more male nudity then female nudity in this. Which half of me is like yay!!! Since many movies pointlessly and gratuitously have women taking their clothes off. While the other half of me thinks shorts a good idea. I see why Dr.Manhattan was metaphysical and stuff but that dos not mean pants are unnecessary.
( I have not read the graphic novel, but I now understand more of the filming choices in the movie which I liked.)
( I have not read the graphic novel, but I now understand more of the filming choices in the movie which I liked.)
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I am usually able to reconcile myself to nudity.
Wilma wrote:I see why Dr.Manhattan was metaphysical and stuff but that dos not mean pants are unnecessary.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
It would depend on the pants. <shudders faintly, as if at a memory too terrible to name>
Here is a comic strip about the Watchmen movie. It also has wholesome take-home lessons about adaptation in general. It also has absinthe.
Here is a comic strip about the Watchmen movie. It also has wholesome take-home lessons about adaptation in general. It also has absinthe.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
There are trousers and trousers. And <gag, shudder> trousers.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger. . . .
That which does not kill us makes us stronger. . . .
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I haven't seen it, but my roommate was just telling me about watching it last night.
She complained for about 5 minutes about it and how much she hated it. Some of her thoughts,
"I regret seeing that, ugh."
"Even the scenes that weren't violent were so disingenuous."
"I'm just so grossed out my that movie! So annoyed by it!"
"There's a lot of d**k in that movie, too. Some of the scenes were almost like a porno."
So I think she didn't like it.
She complained for about 5 minutes about it and how much she hated it. Some of her thoughts,
"I regret seeing that, ugh."
"Even the scenes that weren't violent were so disingenuous."
"I'm just so grossed out my that movie! So annoyed by it!"
"There's a lot of d**k in that movie, too. Some of the scenes were almost like a porno."
So I think she didn't like it.