Watchmen

Post by **yovargas** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:05 am

I read this a couple years ago and am re-reading it now in preparation for the movie. I am glad to find it is still every bit the artistic masterpiece I recall it being. I am extremely curios about the movie but have very low expectations. I'm mainly reading it now to protect from a bad movie botching my memory of the brilliant book.

So, any fans? Anybody excited/dreading the movie?
(PS - I'm trying avoid hearing much about the movie till I see it so, movie-wise, please keep this thread 100% spoiler-free.)

Post by **Hachimitsu** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:10 am

I have a date to go see it tomorrow. I have not read the comic. I hope it is good.

Post by **Teremia** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:14 am

I LOVE the graphic novel! It's truly brilliant.

But I hate what I've seen of the film in the trailers. I'm not sure whether I'm brave enough to go see this movie.

Post by **Alatar** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:30 am

Reviews over here have been very positive. One of the Irish reviewers is a huge fan, read it 20 years ago etc. He said it was brilliant but he was still slightly disappointed. I expect it will be very much like the LotR movies. Some fans will love it, some will hate it, but I expect most will say "Brilliant adaptation that missed the mark in places".

And really thats about the most anyone can hope for. Quite simply, my perfect LotR won't be yours, and yov's perfect Watchmen won't be someone else's.

Post by **Angbasdil** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:43 pm

Mrs. Ang and I have a date, tickets are bought and waiting in the virtual kiosk. And I am extremely geeked out over this. For those that haven't read it, there's not enough hyperbole on the entire net to express the impact the graphic novel had on the comic book world. To many comic book fans, Watchmen was life-altering in the same way LOTR was for many of us. I know it changed the way I viewed superheroes, and I had to reread it twice to get the full impact. I suspect I'll have to go back and reread it again next week.

All indications are that this is a very faithful adaptation, maybe too much so. The most common complaints that I've read are that Snyder was so faithful in the details that he lost the overall themes, and that the film is so dense that it's hard to keep up with it all. Fan reviews have been mostly positive, but Alatar said it well - some will love it, some will hate it.

Spoiler hint ahead:

For fans of the GN, there is one very significant change. It's not necessarily a change in the plot, but a change in what plot device moves the plot at that point.

MAJOR SPOILER:

Snyder got rid of the "squid" that Ozy uses to wreak havoc. Ozy still wreaks havoc, just in a different way. Personally, I always found the squid to be kinda "comic-booky", so if I were going to change one thing it would be the squid. We'll see how well it works tonight.

I'll give y'all a fan's review tonight or tomorrow, along with my wife's non-fan thoughts.

Post by **Angbasdil** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:46 pm

Teremia wrote:I LOVE the graphic novel! It's truly brilliant.

But I hate what I've seen of the film in the trailers. I'm not sure whether I'm brave enough to go see this movie.

Just out of curiosity, what do you not like about what you've seen?

Post by **axordil** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:39 pm

I posted a YouTube rendition of what it COULD have been like over at B77. Here's a non-embedded link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w

Post by **Teremia** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:46 am

ax -- that was really funny!

ang -- well, you're in the theater right this minute, by my calculation, so you'll soon be able to give us the scoop. But a lot of what I love about the graphic novel is its "graphicness," not in the sense of gore, but in the sense of its layout on the page, the incredible intelligence with which the images are put together.

And that tension between the still image and the moving story just can't have made it into the film.

So that's one thing.

The trailer I saw made it all look like a generic action film, and sort of cheesy at that.

Plus, the DELETED ITEM is actually something I really rather like, in its ugly obscenity.

Are all the [Wizard of] Oz references still there in the film?

I'm pulling up a comfy chair and waiting here till you come back with the Full Report!

Post by **Lurker** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:33 am

I love the graphic novel! I'm looking forward to this!

I wanted to watch this at midnight tonight but Princess said she's not going with me today because she doesn't want to watch it with "nerds and fan boys!" I go "Uhm....watch it! You're hurting my fan boy feelings already."

So I'm still deciding whether to go alone and be the fan boy that I am, hopefully the line up is not too long or wait awhile until the fanfare dies down a bit. Hmmmmm....

Post by **Teremia** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:35 am

Oh, Lurker, go ahead!

It's more fun to go see it with an excited fan-boy crowd!

Plus I want to know what you think of it.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:05 am

I used to buy and read comic books when I was a kid, until my parents shamed me out of it. I loved those books. They were the most fun ever. When I was five and I had twelve cents I would walk to the neighborhood grocery on the corner and get Wonder Woman or Superman. A little later it was Marvel—Fantastic Four or Spiderman, mostly. I liked the humanity of the Marvel heroes.

Then, as I said, I stopped feeling comfortable buying and reading them, when I was ten or so.

Now . . . I have both WATCHMEN and DARK KNIGHT, both (I am assured) classics of the genre—and I haven't gotten through either one. It's not residual shame; they just don't hold my attention. I have no idea why. I really don't. I'm not a snob. I'm not blind to graphics. I can enjoy comic books. I like a nice violent emotional entertaining story as much as the next geek. Heck, I write that kind of thing myself.

I just can't seem to keep my eyes on the page.

I know I'm missing something. I'll keep trying.

Post by **Angbasdil** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:21 pm

Wow.

Just... wow

I'm still processing this full frontal assault on the senses that is Zach Snyder's Watchmen. It's epic, it's graphic, and the camera is unflinching. But before I get into details, let me go off on a bit of a tangent.

My wife is very much not a comic book fan. It's not the stories, it's the medium itself she doesn't like. She actually likes superhero movies, and action movies in general. Her favorite form of escapism is a film with explosions, car chases and a high body count. But she's a very visual person, and when she reads she sees the story unfold in her head. So a medium that draws the pictures for you on the page just feels wrong to her. I OTOH am not that visual, so I enjoy the medium. With that in mind...

Teremia may be glad to hear that the film's major flaw is that it is too faithful to the source. Not in the story or details, but in the way it is put up on the screen. It just feels like a grahic novel. It feels like a great graphic novel. Maybe so much so that it never quite feels like a great film. (I'm too close to the source material to say that for sure, but that's my wife's opinion.) Snyder uses stop motion and slow motion to linger in the same places that the GN readers' eyes would linger, and he frames his shots like the panels of a comic book. As an example, in the GN there's a large panel showing the Comedian going out the window. In the film, the camera pauses there for a second, then the Comedian falls as his iconic smiley face button hangs in the air for an instant before following him down. And every geek in the theater silently says "woohoo!" So in summary, it may or may not be a great film, but it is a great comic book movie.

My wife's summary: The characters were great. The story was interesting and thought provoking. The production was way over the top. If it were based on a novel, she would read it, but like I said, the GN medium just doesn't work for her.

My summary:

And Teremia should go see it.
So should Prim.

just sayin'

I'll go more in depth later.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:41 pm

I probably will see it, Ang. I feel much as your wife does about comic-book and action movies. The ones that are well made are really fun, and I usually try to see them.

I'm a little reluctant about gore, though, and I keep hearing this one is in-your-face violent.

Post by **Hachimitsu** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:02 pm

Not to mention nakedness. I think there was more male nudity then female nudity in this. Which half of me is like yay!!! Since many movies pointlessly and gratuitously have women taking their clothes off. While the other half of me thinks shorts a good idea. I see why Dr.Manhattan was metaphysical and stuff but that dos not mean pants are unnecessary.

( I have not read the graphic novel, but I now understand more of the filming choices in the movie which I liked.)

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:37 pm

I am usually able to reconcile myself to nudity.

Wilma wrote:I see why Dr.Manhattan was metaphysical and stuff but that dos not mean pants are unnecessary.

Post by **axordil** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:43 pm

Poll: if you were functionally a god, would you wear pants?

Yes

No

Chimp washing a cat

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:44 pm

It would depend on the pants. <shudders faintly, as if at a memory too terrible to name>

Here is a comic strip about the Watchmen movie. It also has wholesome take-home lessons about adaptation in general. It also has absinthe.

Post by **solicitr** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:58 am

Well, only if they were Pratchett's Trousers of Time...

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:53 am

There are trousers and trousers. And <gag, shudder> trousers.

That which does not kill us makes us stronger. . . .

Post by **Rebecca** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:56 pm

I haven't seen it, but my roommate was just telling me about watching it last night.

She complained for about 5 minutes about it and how much she hated it. Some of her thoughts,
"I regret seeing that, ugh."
"Even the scenes that weren't violent were so disingenuous."
"I'm just so grossed out my that movie! So annoyed by it!"
"There's a lot of d**k in that movie, too. Some of the scenes were almost like a porno."

So I think she didn't like it.