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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:29 am 
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I'm sure I've asked this before, but anyway.

How does Lady Catherine know Mr. Darcy has designs on Elizabeth?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:03 pm 
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That's an interesting question. It's even the title of a book: Who Betrays Elizabeth Bennet?, which attempts to answer this and other literary mysteries.

IIRC the solution proposed was the Lucases, via Charlotte and Mr Collins.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:03 pm 
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Yes, but in the form of scuttlebut. Darcy had not yet made any overt moves, but the marriage of, first, Lydia, followed so quickly by the betrothal of Jane to Bingley, fomented a certain degree of local enthusiasm for Bennett weddings, leading to rumour and innuendo of yet another Bennett wedding...Lizzie's (as the next eldest daughter) to Darcy (as Bingley's best friend), possibly stroked to life by Charlotte who had always noticed that Darcy "looked at Elizabeth" very often.

The rumour would have reached Lady Catherine's ears via the ever-helpful Mr Collins.

This is supported in the text by the evidence of the letter sent by Mr Collins to Mr Bennett, which Mr Bennett helpfully reads out to Lizzie for their mutual enjoyment. He even adds (Mr Collins, that is) the caution that, to his certain knowledge, the proposed match would not be looked upon favourably by Mr Darcy's eminent relation, indicating that Mr Collins and his patroness had exchanged some talk on the subject.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Impenitent wrote:
Yes, but in the form of scuttlebut. Darcy had not yet made any overt moves, but the marriage of, first, Lydia, followed so quickly by the betrothal of Jane to Bingley, fomented a certain degree of local enthusiasm for Bennett weddings, leading to rumour and innuendo of yet another Bennett wedding...Lizzie's (as the next eldest daughter) to Darcy (as Bingley's best friend), possibly stroked to life by Charlotte who had always noticed that Darcy "looked at Elizabeth" very often.

The rumour would have reached Lady Catherine's ears via the ever-helpful Mr Collins.

This is supported in the text by the evidence of the letter sent by Mr Collins to Mr Bennett, which Mr Bennett helpfully reads out to Lizzie for their mutual enjoyment. He even adds (Mr Collins, that is) the caution that, to his certain knowledge, the proposed match would not be looked upon favourably by Mr Darcy's eminent relation, indicating that Mr Collins and his patroness had exchanged some talk on the subject.


That makes the most sense to me. I also remembered that Charlotte suspected Darcy's visits to the parsonage were motivated by a desire to see Elizabeth, and she no doubt assumed that his affections would not go unreturned.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:20 pm 
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Lord_Morningstar wrote:
I also remembered that Charlotte suspected Darcy's visits to the parsonage were motivated by a desire to see Elizabeth, and she no doubt assumed that his affections would not go unreturned.


True; Charlotte was always very practical (if not mercenary) and, while Lizzie had made it plain that her motivations for marriage would be romantic, I think Charlotte would nonetheless strongly suspect that Lizzie would give in to pragmatics if Darcy actually proposed.

Also...there was perhaps a small kernel of guilt in Charlotte that may have produced some wishful thinking in regard to Lizzie and Darcy. Charlotte's marrying Mr Collins meant that she would inherit the Bennett estate and her machinations in achieving that marriage really were quite mercenary. I think the thought that Lizzie would end up marrying money, promoting that thought, somehow relieved Charlotte of a slight burden.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:03 pm 
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I've been going through Amazon's movie lists looking for science fiction and fantasy I haven't seen, and this popped up:

"Lost in Austen"

I'm wondering what you Austen fans think of this premise. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:16 pm 
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I say, "meh".

I heard on the radio that P. D. James, the famously famous mystery writer, is writing or has written, a sequel to Pride and Prejudice.

I am not, myself, a fan of P. D. James. I am not, myself, a fan of British mysteries in general, except sometimes on TV. And I can't imagine what on earth she's done or is doing.

Story here.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:19 pm 
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I'll be reporting on the book shortly after Santa puts it in my stocking on Christmas Day. (I fill all the stockings for everyone, and as I always say, bind not up the mouth of the kine that treadeth out the grain.)

Santa actually thought the excerpt posted online looked rather promising, as these things go.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:43 am 
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The PD James book is "Death comes to Pemberley", and I've read it (99c for kindle special).

Meh, is right.

I've not read any other PD James, so I can't compare to anything else she has written, but this did nothing for me.

It is a crime/mystery plot, of course, and the outline is quite interesting. One of Austen's original P & P minor characters is found dead on the grounds of Pemberley one stormy night, and Wickham is suspected of the murder. This draws in all the major characters - Darcy, Fitzwilliam, the Bingleys etc, as they try to untangle it all. She explores the various loyalties of the characters, their emotional responses to the pall of death and scandal that hangs over Pemberley, and we finally get to the whodunnit.

The writing is good, professional, slick and a very adequate imitation of Austen's style - but it lacks the wit and sparkle.

The characters are a little flat; Austen's focus is always on the interpersonal plays, the inner motivations, quirks and foibles of the people she's writing about. PD James focuses on the whodunnit unfolding and the characters are background to that, which was a let down when one is used to the sparkle of interaction between these much-loved characters.

It was okay, I guess. I don't think I'll be re-reading it, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:40 am 
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Maria wrote:
I've been going through Amazon's movie lists looking for science fiction and fantasy I haven't seen, and this popped up:

"Lost in Austen"

I'm wondering what you Austen fans think of this premise. :)


I enjoyed this comedy drama series very much! It's witty, funny and a very affectionate take on Austen.

Modern British girl Amanda gets transported into her favourite novel -- Pride and Prejudice -- and all kinds of complications ensue as her arrival plays merry havoc with canon. :D Lizzy Bennet, in turn, swaps with Amanda for the 21st century, and it turns out that nothing in the 21st century really fazes Lizzy very much. :blackeye:

My favourite scene is Amanda singing 'Downtown' to the astonished trio of Darcy, Bingley and Caroline Bingley. :rofl:

I was disappointed by the ending, as I felt it sent out the wrong message ... but you'll have to watch it to see if you agree with me.

It's really good fun, though. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:56 am 
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We allowed a significant date to slip by unnoticed - January 27th marked the 200th anniversary of the publication of Pride and Prejudice.

The first edition consisted of three hardcover volumes and cost 18 shillings. I expect that you would need to pay a lot more for a first edition today ;).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Probably, but back in the day it was already expensive! I remember reading a while back that in reading Austen one should mentally consider a pound to be equal to $100 today (so Darcy had a cash income of $1 million per year, not too shabby), and by that measure, the first edition cost $90.

ETA: So I reread most of the thread even though I don't have time—such lovely posts by so many people, some of whom are no longer posting here, especially vision :cry: .

And in one post it was asserted that a pound was more like $200 or $300.

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― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:02 pm 
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of Vinyamar
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I see the book was mentioned earlier on the page, but here's the TV Adaptation!

Quote:
Matthew Rhys has been cast as Mr Darcy in a new BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice murder mystery spin-off Death Comes to Pemberley.

The Brothers and Sisters actor will star alongside Anna Maxwell Martin and Matthew Goode, as Elizabeth Bennett and George Wickham respectively, in the drama based on PD James's novel.

Downton Abbey's Dan Stevens had previously been linked to the role of Mr Darcy.

Rhys said: "Exciting as it is, one of the challenges of a part such as Darcy are the comparisons that will be drawn to those who've institutionalised him in the past.

"The beauty of Pemberley is that it is an entirely new and different Darcy six years on. And also, I don't have to appear from a lake in a white shirt and breeches!"

Death Comes to Pemberley - set six years after the events of Jane Austen's classic novel - has been adapted for the screen by Calendar Girls writer Juliette Towhidi.

A Single Man star Goode added: "I'm thrilled to be involved in this adaptation of Death Comes to Pemberley. I have long been an admirer of Jane Austen and in particular of Pride and Prejudice.

"More exciting still is the chance to work with Matthew Rhys who is not only one of the most talented actors of my generation but also the most fun."

The three part series will begin filming on location in Yorkshire next month.

Colin Firth most famously played Darcy in the BBC's 1995 adaptation of Pride And Prejudice, while Spooks star Matthew Macfadyen played him in director Joe Wright's film adaptation in 2005.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:16 pm 
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This sounds intriguing! :)

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:48 pm 
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It's an adaptation of PD James' recent sequel to P & P of the same name.

I read it.

It's bad. No life, no humour, no effervescence, the writing was heavy and the characters were not themselves.

(...but then, I was the alien life form that was disappointed in Star Trek: Into Darkness ;) )

On the other hand, perhaps the screenwriters will manage to make a silk purse from the sow's ear.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:26 pm 
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I recently requested the audiobook version of 'Death Comes to Pemberley' from the library, and could tolerate only a few minutes. She got Col. Fitzwilliam all wrong, in my estimation, and the tone was all wrong, and on and on.

I did enjoy some of P. D. James' mysteries in the past, but now they seem too cluttered with neurotic personalities for my taste.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:53 pm 
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Honestly, I dislike fan-fiction in general, and while I haven't read Death Comes to Pemberley I suspect that my thoughts would probably echo Impy's and Cerin's.

In a good book (which I suspect everyone posting in this thread would agree applies to P&P) the plot, setting and characters work together towards a conclusion. You cannot simply re-create the same effect by removing one of the elements and replacing it (in this case, the plot).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:21 am 
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Then what about every sequel ever written?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:00 am 
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Depends. If it isn't simply a plotectomy with plotoplasty—if it really is a new story—there's nothing wrong with it. The problem is that that for this to work, the characters and setting need to be consistent—and in bad Austen fanfic, or weak Austen sequels, they are not.

I never finished reading Death Comes to Pemberley, because my "Life is too short" alarm went off. :(

Sequels can also decay over time, even with one author writing them. Example: Alcott's Little Women. Considered the "first book," it was actually the first book and its sequel, and felt pretty seamless. There was a time jump, but the story continued. Little Men was a still longer time jump and also a stylistic one, becoming more sentimental and much less psychologically honest than the first "book." Jo's Boys went further still.

With age and experience I'm inclined to assert that nobody not the original author can write a sequel worthy of (and true to the vision of) the original author. I stand ready to be corrected.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Speaking of adaptations, I recently saw Emma. Other ladies are welcome to Mr. Darcy, it's Mr. Knightly for me. :D

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