I understand that meaning vison, but what I was asking is if it's intentionally ambiguous. Are we meant to consider the three different ways of reading that sentence, or has modern english simply become so vague as to allow three interpretations of that line.

Here's what I said...



Your comment would suggest that only the "in need of a wife" interpretation is correct, which would be disappointing, as the cleverness of the line for me lies in it's ambiguity.


Alatar

There is ambiguity for the modern reader, I'm not sure there was for her contemporaries. I think the joke there lay in stating the obvious.

No, maybe not. Probably not.

But the first and commonest meaning would have been "needed" as she said "IN want", not "wants". When I am "in want" of something, right?

But yes, there is a layer of double or triple meaning that adds to the fun.

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Dig deeper.

I managed to score THE VERY LAST COPY of Pride and Prejudice at Audreys at lunchtime today, and put on the bravest face I could when it turned out to be a hard cover copy that set me back $26 plus tax.



I know, I know, I probably could have found a hard cover copy in the Wee Book Inn for a mere $5 but, *sigh* I was in a hurry . . .

I read the first chapter whilst waiting for the train, hehehe, I had forgotten about Austins dry wit . . .

I'll catch up with the Virgins' opinions when I get home tonight . . .

:D:D

Edit:

Okay, I'm a bad, bad Scribbles. I devoured the first 10 chapters between waiting on the train platform at noon after buying the book, and the train/bus going home tonight . . .

I love the questions being framed by the first time readers, right from the first, and definitely classic line. The different descriptions and impressions of how they're feeling "inside" the book are wonderful to see too!

I also have always looked at the first line as Austen's dry wit at its finest . . . meaning of course that a single man with money is an anomaly, that something doesn't add up. In other words, oh my gosh! He needs a wife to spend his money . . . :D

As for Darcy . . . well, I won't give it away.

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~.~
Actions speak louder than words, but on a messageboard, "you are what you type . . ."
~.~

Are we ready to move on?

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The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End

I think that's up to you.

Now that discussion of the first chapters has subsided a bit, might I ask a content question of the more experienced readers here?

In the third chapter, when they tell Mr Bennet about the ball, Mrs Bennet says:


I don't really understand how this dancing works: do the dances come in pairs and each pair counts as one dance?

(And for the sixth dance he had two partners? Or, rather, a different partner in each of the two dances?)

(Thanks for the links to the e-text, btw - that would have been a lot to type! )

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but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.

I am ready to move on, even started reading the other chapters...

Then I believe you can post when you're ready. How about this? Whichever of the "virgins" posts first on the next section can name the chapter through which the discussion should focus. I'll edit the title of the thread to reflect that. The rest of us will post only about those chapters.

Does that work?

I recall at least vison and Imp, and maybe Prim saying they had things to say about the first section, so I hope they'll still comment. But yes, I think we can move on to the next 5 (or so) chapters now. I'll read them today.

Well... vison has already commented, and Impenitent has posted (on TOB, not sure about here) that she needs some time away from the virtual world. In any case, there's no problem talking about earlier chapters - just the ones you haven't read yet.

I've always assumed that a convention had grown up that if you dance with someone, you dance with them for two dances or it might seem as if you couldn't bring yourself to do it. As if getting a new partner after one dance would seem like rudely seeking an escape. But that's a guess.

I used to think it was because the dances were short, but then in another novel she refers to two dances as talking "a half hour."

As for the sixth dance, he danced both with Lizzy, and Mrs. Bennet was about to go on and tell Mr. Bennet his partner for the Boulanger (a named dance). I think that sentence is supposed to end with a dash.

Edit: Please don't hold up the discussion for me. I don't have anything particular to say yet that I haven't said already.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

Ethel, I cross-posted with you. That plan sounds ideal.

Ah, thanks Prim - sounds like a good guess to me!

And I was wondering whether Boulanger was really the last name of a lady or the name of a dance, but as no other dance was named I thought it must be the woman - LOL.

I still think it's odd that two dances counted as one, i.e. that they don't say "the third and fourth dance" but "the two third".

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but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.

Hobby, there are some good end notes in my 'Penguin Classic' edition of P&P on dancing. Let me share them.

That's interesting, Ethel! Thanks for posting it. I don't have that edition.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

The other thing about dancing is: a girl who danced more than twice with the same man in one evening was regarded as hopelessly "fast", and therefore not quite respectable.

For a man to ask for a second dance (not the second of pair, but a second dance) was a particular mark of interest. (He might ASK for a third dance, but he wouldn't expect to get it, and the chaperones would frown. A real gentleman wouldn't ask. ) So when Mr. Bingley danced twice with Jane Bennett, he really was displaying a strong interest in her.

Even engaged couples were not really supposed to dance more than twice. And public displays of affection between engaged people, or newly married people, were just "not done".

I don't recall that The Waltz turns up anywhere in Austen's works, likely it was still too new and too "fast" for her circles. But it was really a scandalous dance at first since it involved the man actually embracing the woman and steering her about the room, as opposed to the "set" dances people were used to. And waltzing was really strenuous, the music was played quite fast and each dance lasted a long time.

Yes, Darcy's refusal to dance with Elizabeth was a quite serious slight, a really rude gesture.

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Dig deeper.

Lady Glencora Palliser's fatal waltz with Burgo Fitzgerald. . . .

But that's Trollope.

Here's a link I found for Regency dances: http://www.britainexpress.com/History/r ... dances.htm

After some Googling I can say the waltz was in England by 1800, but was not danced at Court (=social acceptance) until 1816, after the time of Pride and Prejudice.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King

Yes, Prim. That's what I figured! Thanks for the google.

Ah, Lady Glencora. One of the grande dames of fiction, and one of my absolute favourites. How wonderful Trollope's women are.

But that's another story, as you say.

There is so much in Austen's writing that reveals how much her characters were like us. But there are little mysteries that puzzle the modern reader, perhaps. So the more we know of her era, the more we know about convention and custom the more we can see how brilliant she was, how clearly she saw, what skill she had in drawing her world.

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Dig deeper.

Hum, I am done reading chapters 5-8.

Things I have learned, drinking a bottle of wine a day is not a good idea.

Chapter 8 is something. I am feeling a bit sorry for Elizabeth staying there taking care of Jane and the cattiness of the other women. Like walking three miles is a bad thing.

And what’s up with Mr. Bennet and his distaste with his own kids...

I loved the whole planning of sending Elizabeth to help her sister. And the way the younger sisters are described as basically empty headed.

I am finding this book rather humorous.

BTW what’s a skreen? Is it the same as a screen?

Especially since the "wine" in question was port or madeira or sherry—fortified stuff, about 20% alcohol, so drinking a whole bottle was like polishing off half a bottle of liquor a day. "Regular" wine from France or Spain was embargoed because of the Napoleonic wars and had been for so long that people disdained it when it was offered ("watery claret").

That was a really hard-drinking era, for men of the upper classes anyway.

And a "skreen" is a screen. Some editions preserve more of Austen's spelling than others.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King