*cough*Boromir*cough*

_________________
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF

I was just thinking that!

And, of course, Théoden (and Halbarad and a bunch of other less important characters at the Pelennor Fields, Helms Deep and elsewhere). And of course, that is only in LOTR. Lots of people die in first and second age stories, not to mention the second most important character in The Hobbit (and his nephews).

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In gratitude forever … .

Smaug had nephews?

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V, while that is accurate, I don't see the connection to the Chosen One trope. Explain?Probably? Dragons lay eggs, right? There's probably more than one in a clutch, so he probably has siblings.

Do we know of any female dragons?

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Dark have been my dreams of late.

It's not. It is connected to the statement "Tolkien can get a pass for many things (no one DYING, for one)" and then the response "*cough*Boromir*cough*." Boromir died. Théoden died. Lots of people died in the various battles in LOTR, and even more died in first two ages. Thorin, Fili and Kili (and Smaug and his unknown nephews Faug and Kaug) all die in the Hobbit. Nothing to do with the so-called Chosen One trope.

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In gratitude forever … .

Oh, OK. Never mind, that was a before-coffee question.

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Dark have been my dreams of late.

Sean Bean's characters don't count.

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"You are a liar, Saruman, and a corrupter of men's hearts."

All Beans Matter!

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The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF

(Unclear post removed)

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*title copyright: Teremia

'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude

I don't know whether any of the characters in Tolkien technically meet the definition of the 'chosen one' tropes. I may be simplifying the trope too much, but here is how I see them:

Aragorn wasn't special in that he was "the one" - he was from a long line of anyone who could have been 'the one' had the events happened in their lifetimes. I think it's missing the point to assume that the events happening necessarily require them to happen in the lifetime of specific people, rather than just picking the best suited people who are around during said events.

That is, Aragorn being Aragorn didn't trigger any of the events of Lord of the Rings, more he was simply the latest heir during the time that the events happened. It may just as well have been Arathorn who did them. Or Aragorn's progeny. (though the whole "you can't marry my daughter until you become king" may negate that to some degree) Any of Isildur's line could have commanded the Armies of the Dead, to let them fulfill their vows.

Similar to Bilbo and Frodo. Bilbo was arguably a 'chosen' one, literally chosen by Gandalf, to be part of the Dwarven party for reasons I don't think were ever really clearly defined for us (or maybe I missed it?) Even so, he wasn't a part of prophecy or the only one who could have done what he did, I think it was simply the trigger for events that followed, but not having anything to do specifically with who was involved. If that makes sense. Even the Ring wasn't important until later (that is, even Tolkien didn't know it was important at the time, and Gandalf only finds out later.)

Frodo again wasn't a chosen one either, anymore than Sméagol was a chosen one, or Sam. Frodo's only real push at the beginning was "Hey, uh, yeah so this horribly cursed Ring, y'know that ONE ring (the chosen ring? )... yeah, might want to get that out of the Shire before horrible things happen." So he went to Rivendel, but that was all the further he had originally planned to go. He volunteered to go further, but he didn't have to, he could have left it to the 'greater peoples' to decide what to do.

Yeah, I'll become repetitive so I'll skip to the end - none of the people involved in LotRs were chosen to be special for some task that they and only they could do - rather they were the ones who were around and willing to do what needed to be done during the time that the events happened. Others could have stepped forward or taken up the burdens.

There were also lots of deaths, although the one Ha, psyche! with Gandalf might get a bit tropy, but for the most part dead characters stay dead, events aren't foretold, and no one has a strange birthmark (Elora Danan), or extraordinary unknown parentage (Luke Skywalker), or gets used as a pawn by others/warring factions (Katniss Everdeen).

/2 cents

_________________
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF

I agree with most of what you said, except for Bilbo and Frodo:



What I get from this quote is that they were special, or at least "specially chosen" for reasons that were not immediately obvious to everyone else.

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Not to sound flippant here but probably half the people on earth believe everything happens per divine will, I don't really think that falls into the 'chosen one' trope, however. It sounds more like religious belief overtones. Though I do see what you're getting at.

_________________
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF

So what you're saying is... you're a Bean counter?

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"You are a liar, Saruman, and a corrupter of men's hearts."

_________________
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF

Has anyone read Martha Wells? She’s coming up in my amazon recommendations as “hard sci-fi”. Prim doesn’t have her on her goodreads bookshelf.

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*title copyright: Teremia

'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude

So I've been reading Martha Wells; she's pretty good!

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*title copyright: Teremia

'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude

Okay, so thanks to the power outage I did finally finish The Fifth Season and I would say I am left speechless but I desperately want to sing this book's praises!

It did take me a while to get through it, partly because the material was so freak deep that I just couldn't take that much in all at once and keep any of it straight. As it is, having now finished, I'll need to go back and reread the first several chapters now that I know what the heck is going on.

Next two on order.

_________________
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.

"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF

Yes. I did that too. Isn’t it an absolutely incredible book, though? I think I’ll re-read the broken earth trilogy once I’m done with the Vorkosian saga.

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*title copyright: Teremia

'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude