Have you read...can you recommend...

[RoseMorninStar]

FOUND IT!
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/540489.Wise_Child

Man, I was starting to think maybe I wouldn't recognize the title if I saw it but nope, the second I saw it that was it, and that was definitely the same cover, even!

YAY!!

[elengil]

So... has anyone ever read or heard of a high fantasy book ala Tolkien with elves and wizards and goblins, etc, ... set in Neolithic times?

[Frelga]

No, but tell me more.

[elengil]

No, but tell me more.

LOL! This wasn't meant to be a leading question, it really was an inquiry. A series of thoughts lead me to wonder if there are any high fantasy books set pre-Middle Ages, especially in Neolithic. I was thinking about how that would work. Perhaps partly inspired even by the Silmarillion, it struck me as odd how even at the very beginning of their time the Elves and Men were defaulted to Middle Age societies with swords and kings and great cities and such.

I wondered what it would be like to have a high fantasy but set it far earlier, actually explore what it would be like for those first awakened peoples (especially if we metaphorically take awakened to be a point at which humans cease to be 'animals') and explore what a world in which the high fantasy races exist, with what we would think of as magic or powers beyond human means and understanding worked. What would it be like the first time a person ventured beyond their small clan territory and experienced an Elf, or an Orc, or saw magic and powers at work. What would a Tolkien-esque pre-history look like?

I could see things like druids or spiritual leaders, first contact and conflict, perhaps a more advanced people imposing their will? Selectively teaching certain things that would make the other race useful but not a threat? It could get dark very quickly...

[Frelga]

Hm. That wasn't high fantasy exactly, but what's the name of that French book about this Neolithic guy who needs to find fire because his clan's went out and they haven't learned to re-light it yet?

*grows a brain cell and Googles in Russian*

It's La Guerre du Feu, or The Quest for Fire in English translation. It doesn't have Elves and Goblins but there are various humanoid species some of whom kinda play the same role.

[elengil]

Oh that's interesting!

[elengil]

So apparently that's been made into a movie as well.

And... I've seen it. Okay wow!

[RoseMorninStar]

So apparently that's been made into a movie as well.

And... I've seen it. Okay wow!

LOL.

[Frelga]

So apparently that's been made into a movie as well.

And... I've seen it. Okay wow!

I haven't but wiki says that the movie is not a faithful adaptation. I read the book in Russian translation, back in school.

[elengil]

So apparently that's been made into a movie as well.

And... I've seen it. Okay wow!

I haven't but wiki says that the movie is not a faithful adaptation. I read the book in Russian translation, back in school.

Not surprising. I would be interested in reading the novel, though as you said it isn't really high fantasy.

I might poke at the idea of a high fantasy world neolithic-eque era. Not sure if I'll wake up any ideas, but it would be fun to poke at. If I get anything interesting out of it I'll share with the board

[Frelga]

I was going to say that you will just have to write it yourself.

Quest for the Fire has no magic as such, that I remember. But there are different hominids, some more advanced than the hero's clan and others more warlike, so they fill the roles of elves and goblins to some extent.

[elengil]

I was going to say that you will just have to write it yourself.

Quest for the Fire has no magic as such, that I remember. But there are different hominids, some more advanced than the hero's clan and others more warlike, so they fill the roles of elves and goblins to some extent.

The movie struck me as being almost depicting Neanderthal or similar, and then finding full humans on the journey. But that may be an adaptational change. I will read the book. It has been a while since I watched the movie, I think it was on tv (waaayyy back when I had that) and it was one of those, it's on, and nothing else is, so why not.

[RoseMorninStar]

Tolkien pretty much modeled the Sil after the bible. The Garden of Eden, Abraham, Noah & the Flood, etc.. aren't exactly neolithic tales.

[elengil]

Tolkien pretty much modeled the Sil after the bible. The Garden of Eden, Abraham, Noah & the Flood, etc.. aren't exactly neolithic tales.

Aren't they? Farmers and animal herders? Clothed in animal skins after they're kicked out of Eden. And at least partially nomadic. Bronze age at best.

But yes, modeled on the Bible, civilization did not start from nothing but came seemingly pre-loaded with a good level of knowledge and skill.

[RoseMorninStar]

I suppose that is up to interpretation and what you had in mind. Yes, they were farmers & herders but it doesn't discuss what tools were used (if any). After Cain killed Abel he went into another land, married, had a son name Enoch who founded a city. Of course they lived 900 years or some-such so.. covering a huge span of time in a few lifetimes. Not that any of that matters to me, I was just trying to envision exactly what you had in mind.

[Frelga]

That's an interesting take and I'd like to think about it.

It's probably fair to say that in Bereishit - that's Genesis 1-6 to you - humans do exist in the primeval, pre-neolithic state.

By the time we get to Abraham, quite a bit of time has passed and the society progressed.

X-posted with Rose. Yeah, it's not really clear exactly who Adam and Eve's in-laws were and where they came from.

[elengil]

LOL I'm sure Voronwë is going to mosey along and split this discussion off on its own before long so I don't feel too bad about continuing the "off" but exceptionally interesting topic.

(I do know Bereishit ) So Genesis 1-3 is entirely in the sort of divine prehistory that lacks any kind of context for human technology.

I am not *well* versed in the ages that human history is split into, but I believe Neolithic marks he beginning of agriculture, so since Caine was a farmer, that to me puts Genesis 4 squarely at day 1 (or.. day 8 maybe) of the Neolithic period at the earliest, though I suppose the presence of a sword, even a divine flaming one, suggests that swords existed, so perhaps it is Bronze age.

Yeah, it's not really clear exactly who Adam and Eve's in-laws were and where they came from

Back when I was actually trying very hard to understand Genesis, I subscribed to the belief that since Adam and Eve lived for nearly 1,000 years, and had 'other sons and daughters', that Caine's wife was his sister, or some derivative relation. The time frame of Abel's death vs Caine's eventual taking of a wife is not exactly given a calendar date.

Though I just skimmed Genesis 4 down to verse 22 where it says

Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron.

So Genesis 4:22 is indisputably iron age.

[Frelga]

I have resisted going down the rabbit hole of rabbinical commentary on Genesis, because, at the time, other rabbit holes seemed more appealing.

Heh. Rabbi hole?

Anyway. For those truly interested, Yonatan Zunger had an in-depth review of the, um, genesis of early biblical stories with references to tales going back to Ur times. It's probably on his blog on Medium. I only skimmed it because it was the level of geekery I could not quite muster.

[elengil]

Heh. Rabbi hole?

I lol'd


[A pastor, a priest, and a rabbit walk into a bar. The rabbit says, "I think I'm a typo"]

[RoseMorninStar]

Rabbi hole..


elengil, no worries.. like I said, I was just trying to further pinpoint what exactly you had in mind, not trying to nit-pick history/religious text. Sort of like Clan of the Cave Bear meets high fantasy. (?)

On the joke