Wicked (potential spoilers): Questions!!

[Wildwood]

:D:D:D:D

(if this looks amazingly just like a topic started on another LOTR board many of us frequent, that's 'casue it IS! :D:D:D Copy/paste is a wonderful thing! :D:D:D:D)

Ok - first things first, if there is already a topic on this book, I do apologize. I made a halfhearted attempt to search on it, but the search proved frustrating, and so - in typical Wildwood fashion - I decided to say "heck with it!" and started my own thread! :D:D:D:D One of the benefits of being one of the OLD ones! :D:D:D

Anyhow - all that said - I want to talk about this book!! I have several questions and things that I wonder about......so anyone who has read it and liked it, join on in!

Issue 1:
How did the book story fare as it was trasferred to a musical? The reason I ask has to do with how I decided to read the book in the first place. My younger daughter is completely in love with the music from the show!! She listens to it all the time, is constantly singing the songs, etc. But she's never seen it.

I am planning to take her to see it, if everythign works out alright, etc. I'd love to have a few days away, just me and her, to surprise her with a trip to see it in NY, etc. She'd love me forever (well, she already will, but every little bit extra will help!)!!!

Anyhow - I've listened to some of the songs (could hardly avoid it, as she is a teen, adn her music only knows on volume: LOUDER THAN GOD!!! :D:D:D:D:D), and I was tryign to figure out, just from the lyrics, how this all ties in with the story I know. (By the way, I have not read the book - shame on ME - but have, like every other person my age, seen the movie about a blue million times having been exposed to it before I was old enough to realize there WAS a book for it to be based on! :D:D:D:D:D) I couldn't figure it out!

So I got to asking her about it, and she said that Dorothy and friends do actually come into the story, but in s weird way, that the story (remember, we're talking music only, here!) was about how the Wicked Witch of the West got wicked, adn how sometimes "to be good, you have to be bad".

Well, this intrigued me (the songs are great after all!), so I got her book "Wicked" and determined to read it! (Mind you, she has only gotten part way through the book, so far, so I now know much more about the story - bookwise - than she does either of the other two ways!)

So after all that long set up, here is the problem and the question: just from her listening to the songs, and based on what she has said to me, she clearly has the impression that - in the musical - Fiyero comes back to Elphaba, that the Scarecrow ends up being him. Her understanding of the situation, just from songs, is that Elphaba is there when the soldiers come to attack him, and that she turns him into the Scarecrow to save him!!

Now - having read the story - I know that he was indeed killed, but that, as Dorothy and friends approach, she sort of gets it in her head that the Scarecrow could be Fiyero in disguise, but nothing about her having magicked him that way, etc.

It's a very understandable mistake on her part, I think, from trying to "know" the story from the songs only, and the natural habit of anyone to try and explain the greater story that is goign on, when listening to the snippets given in the songs, etc.

Still - I am very curious to find out how songs alone could have gotten her so confused!! (Oh - she also is under the impression that the witch survives, in teh musical; that the melting is not a real melting ,adn that she and Fiyero live happily ever after somehow or other!! )

Did the story get changed that drastically for the musical? Is she correct in her surmises? If so, how does anybody feel about it?? :D:D If the story is not changed that much, how on earth did she come away from the music with that impression???

I think we MUST go to see it, to find out where the difficulty arose! As a purist, I feel honor bound to clear this mess UP!
:D:D:D:D

Second issue: does anyone else have the copy with discussion questions in the back?? I love those questions!! My favorite one to mull over, thus far, is whether or not Elphaba is actually "evil"!! Or is she a good person who went wrong trying to do something good! The guy spun a great story in terms of pointing up the conflict between what is right and wrong and what is good and evil to do in the pursuit of righting a wrong, etc!
:D:D:D:D

Third issue: this is one of those annoying situations in which I can clearly see and appreciate the incredible skill of a writer, but - on the whole - did not enjoy the reading experience! :D:D:D I don't like this story! I admire it. I totally credit it's excellence. But I don't like it very much! I liked Elphaba, and I wanted her to come out alright in the end. And my darlin' daughter did not help much by giving me such an mistaken impression, because - toward the end of the book - I was actually looking for the "deus ex machina" that was going to rescue her for me, and it never came, of course. :D:D It wouldn't have been nearly as excellent a job of writing had it come, but i would have been a happier reader, if you see what I mean??? :D:D:D

When it comes down to being the impressed reader vs. being the happy reader, I am afraid I prefer "happy"! :D:D:D:D this is why I am a "fan" of literature, rather than a scholar of it! There are lots of great authors who strike me this way, and I appreciate them, and then run away and never read anymore of their stuff again! :D:D:D I'm a coward!

Oh well - that is more than enough to be going on with! Reply to any pieces and parts that you like! I'm just curious! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Chocolate covered strawberries all 'round!!

[Pearly Di]

I'm only posting in this thread 'cause I am so delighted to see you in the Hall of Fire!

(When is Elm gonna get her butt over here???? *nag nag nag* )

I have no opinions on this at all.

But here's a question, Wildy: if you didn't like the book, then are you OK with changes being made in an adaptation of a book you didn't like?

Hehe .

[Wildwood]

Hey Di! f:D:D

Thanks for posting in my thread, even if you never read the book! I'm guessing you'd like it, though...so if you're ever tempted....just don't expect to be happy about the conclusion! :D

Since I don't like the story, would I mind if they changed it??? Well, it sure would be great to have my favorite character not melt into a puddle at the end.......BUT I would still say they'd taken horrible liberties! :D

I can't escape my purist tendencies, apparently. I think I'd be more like I am with the HP movies. More....tolerant of change. But never approving of it! :D:D:D At the end of the day, it was written the way it was written, and if they want to use the title (and thereby gain - without even TRYING - a whole audience, ready made!!!), they are honor bound to make sure the adapted story is recognizable as the written story they're leaning on! :D:D:D:D:D

What it *would* do is make me wish that the author had come up with it, himself, though! :D:D:D That's as far as I can go down the road to revisionism! :D:D:D:D

Lovely to see you!!

[Alatar]

Too much to read right now, but I'll come back and respond when I get a chance!

[MaidenOfTheShieldarm]

Wildwood

Lots of spoilers contained herein, just so you know.

Typing as one who has seent he show three times and read the book five times . . . the show is substantially different as far as plot points. Your daughter is right -- Elphaba is there when Fiyero is arrested. She goes off and sings No Good Deed (:love:), the beginning of which is the spell which turns Fiyero into the Scarecrow. Elphaba does survive -- she fakes her own death to be with Scarecrow!Fiyero and they run off together leaving everyone thinking that both are dead.

So, yes, it's really different. Elphaba and Galinda's relationship is expanded a lot, which IMO is actually a strength of the show that is better than the book. It's about Elphaba and Galinda, not just Elphaba. That said, the themes remain very much intact. Having read the book many times since seeing and listening to the show, I recognise so many parts that are just in a different guise. The only things I don't approve of are the Elphaba/Fiyero/Galinda triangle and the ending (which actually rather upset me till I came to terms with it). Gregory Maguire, however, loves the show (though is not entirely thrilled with the ending either) so if it's okay with him, I figure it should be okay with me.

Really, the show is amazing. I'm counting my pennies to see it a fourth time. The music is wonderful, the costumes are really phenomenal, and the story has a lot of heart and depth to it. When you go, don't go with the book in mind. Just get swept up in the show -- Defying Gravit is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen on stage. It's made me cry every time.

I do have the copy with questions, and I would LOVE to discuss them. Have been wanting to for a while, in fact.

I love the book (obviously), but I can see why you wouldn't enjoy it. I relate to Elphaba a lot, so I think that's one of the things that I enjoy about it so much.

[Wildwood]

Maiden: thanks for the clarification! :D I admit that I am shocked to find out that she was correct and that they flipped the story so drastically! I just think that's WRONG. I can't help it! :D:D:D

It does sort of help that the author is alright with it, I guess, but only a little. After all, the author doesn't even get to decide what sort of relationship I'm gonna have with his book, right! :D Why should his shocking revisionist attitude toward his OWN work affect me?? :D:D:D

I'm kiddin! Well - mostly! :D:D I am glad to know, in advance, just how drastically it was changed. I'll probably still take her to see the show, eventually. I do love "Defying Gravity". That's a beautiful song, beautifully sung! :D But sheesh! Why can't they just let the story be the story?? People just have to meddle! :D

Thanks again!

[Jude]

Why can't they just let the story be the story?? People just have to meddle! :D

Well, some of us would argue that the original story was flawed, and that the musical was an improvement!

You need to grab Alatar and drag him in here when he gets back on Friday - he's much more eloquent on this point than I am.

My opinion: the book was a brilliant idea, but deeply flawed in its execution.

I don't fully buy the "staged death" ending of the musical, but apart from that, I thought that they made the story a lot more coherent and believable.

[MaidenOfTheShieldarm]

I admit that I am shocked to find out that she was correct and that they flipped the story so drastically! I just think that's WRONG. I can't help it! :D:D:D

It does sort of help that the author is alright with it, I guess, but only a little. After all, the author doesn't even get to decide what sort of relationship I'm gonna have with his book, right! :D Why should his shocking revisionist attitude toward his OWN work affect me?? :D:D:D

I agree -- it wrong and I was shocked when I first saw it. I came out of the theatre and turned to my aunt sand kind of went " . . . What was THAT?" Maguire's rationalization is that the finality of it makes it like she's dead -- Glinda thinks she's dead, so they'll never see each other again anyway. I prefer to think that Elphaba and Fiyero meet up in some sort of afterlife, even though I know Elphaba doesn't believe in that.

As far as revisionism, Maguire said that Oz, and the Wizard of Oz in particular, has gone through so many incarnations and interpretations that he didn't feel he had the right to say "No, it stops here. It needs to be exactly like the book."

Also, I agree with Jude. I love the book. It's a great concept, but in some ways the show makes it so much more cohesive. There are things that they changed that I really don't like, but it really works. For the most part, everything feels right, which is not necessarily true of the book. It's much, much clearer why Elphaba is the "Wicked Witch." Her relationship with Fiyero makes more sense (though not the love triangle). The Elphaba/Galinda friendship is also so much more interesting and satisfying that in the book. That is one thing that is obviously improve.

I do love "Defying Gravity". That's a beautiful song, beautifully sung! :D But sheesh! Why can't they just let the story be the story?? People just have to meddle! :D

Defying Gravity is one of my favourite songs ever. It's just amazing. The story had to be changed to suit the medium. Musical theatre is vastly different and to keep the story intact wouldn't have worked. The first act alone was originally four hours. They have to condense, put into song, and make it lighter.

Glad I could help.