Harry Potter (No book 7 spoilers, please)

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WampusCat
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Post by WampusCat »

Primula Baggins wrote:Good news, I think, for everyone who's going to have books in the bookstore that month. :D
I was planning to preorder it from Amazon, but now I think I ought to stand in the long line at Barnes & Noble, the last Harry Potter and the first Prim-book in hand, saying loudly to everyone: "You know, if you like Rowling's books, you're really going to love this new series!"

:D
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

:D

Except they wouldn't, probably. . . . :D

(I was thinking of bored parents wandering the store while their kids did the costume contests and such.)
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by TheWagner »

Primula Baggins wrote:(I was thinking of bored parents wandering the store while their kids did the costume contests and such.)
My wife and I went to one of those for Half-Blood Prince. Most of the "kids" were in their late teens and eying each other: there were almost no kids young enough to need parents there!

The sort of sad thing is that they did have some "activities" for kids and 2-3 people there to run them: they just stood there and looked like they would have killed to get a suicide pill.

Primula Baggins wrote:Except they wouldn't, probably. . . .
heh, never mind the new series to which Wampus refers: I'm betting that a lot of them will hate the last book! Seriously, I expect that it will be a lot like it was for us (well, for those of us old enough to remember) when the Silmarillion was released. It was so not what many of us expected. It was not that what we got was bad: but it really meant that what we hoped to get would never come.

HP fans are little different from Tolkien fans. So many of them are so enamoured by the literary trees that they just do not even care about the literary forest. There are a lot of big "questions" that they have about Potterverse that never have arisen within the series: this is their last chance to read the answers, and when they are not given (and the vast majority will not be, as they will have no relevance to the pot or story, and as it would take 200 pages just to answer all of these things!), they are going to be crushed! Just as with the Silmarillion, there will be no "next book" to tell us (for example) what Harry's grandparents did for livelihoods or what James & Lily's first date was like, etc......




On a side note, this might really highlight the differences between the book and movie audiences. The Order of the Phoenix opens up the prior weekend. Almost everyone who will be standing in line on the night of the 20th to get Deathly Hallows (or ordering it on 1-day delivery) will have seen the movie the prior weekend. However, they probably will number "only" about 6-7 million: that will be about half of the people who see the movie on the 13th-15th. There will be a big drop in the second week box office for several reasons, (e.g., sequels become increasingly "frontloaded," as the people who liked the prior films rush out to see it, and the people who did not never come at all, regardless of the film's quality; the summer movie season will be over and overall attendance will be down; etc.). However, nearly everyone who sees it will NOT be reading the book that weekend and vice-versa.
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Post by superwizard »

:) No long lines for me! There are some advantages to living overseas. One of them being that there isn't such a huge fan base! People read the books but they just aren't willing to wait to buy it.
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Post by Glawariel »

Hmm, I've never really considered waiting online at the midnight book release. I've always done the pre-order thing. However, neither Amazon nor B&N seem to guarantee that I'll get the book that day which was the case with HBP. And to not get it right away...I mean that would be unacceptable! Think of all that time for uncalled for spoilers :scarey:.

In truth, it could be a really fun experience especially considering that I won't be able to go to the midnight opening of OotP *where's that pouty face emoticon?*.

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Post by Primula Baggins »

Seeing the opening of the film is already my daughter's birthday party plan, so once again I will be shepherding a gaggle of young teens. Not the midnight show—I put my foot down—but a show the next day.

Though I suppose I'll do the midnight thing for the book. We did that for Goblet of Fire and it was fun, and then for OotP I didn't get my pre-order in in time, so we missed out. You could only buy the book at the midnight event if you were picking up a pre-ordered copy.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by TheWagner »

Glawariel wrote:In truth, it could be a really fun experience especially considering that I won't be able to go to the midnight opening of OotP.
We did midnight purchases for both OotP and HBP. It was fun: loads of college and graduate students goofing around, chatting each other up, etc. (Geeks in lust: both amusing and disturbing.....) Even a few old timers like me joined in the fun: I got to tell the kiddees what it was like to anticipate The Silmarillion (the near-universal response: you actually were able to read that thing?!?!?). The speculation of what was to come was really amusing: it tended to get less and less serious as midnight neared and the Starbucks really kicked into gear......

(One young lady predicted a all-out sex scene between Harry and Ginny in HBP: it was far from the least accurate prediction!)

Primula Baggins wrote:Seeing the opening of the film is already my daughter's birthday party plan, so once again I will be shepherding a gaggle of young teens. Not the midnight show—I put my foot down—but a show the next day.
My condolences. Ah, never am I more happy to be childless than when I think of such things! (With such things being "children.")

The funny thing is that I really wonder if DH is going to have much of the stuff that they like at all: no Quidditch, very little Hogwarts, almost certainly numerous deaths, etc.....


Primula Baggins wrote:Though I suppose I'll do the midnight thing for the book. We did that for Goblet of Fire and it was fun, and then for OotP I didn't get my pre-order in in time, so we missed out. You could only buy the book at the midnight event if you were picking up a pre-ordered copy.
You'd better get on that. Otherwise, you might forget, and there might not be any reminders that the book is coming out between now and 21 July...... 8)




Rowling is refusing to give the other two (possible) titles for Deathly Hallows, nor will she say what Hallows means. (My answer would have been: "Look it up, dillweeds!") So, I suppose that anything goes on the grounds that Rowling did not say that Hallows were not, say, dog food dishes!
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Actually, taking kids to movie openings is something of a hobby of mine. I brought masses of kids to all three LotR films and to the Star Wars prequels (guess which I enjoyed more), as well as to most of the Harry Potters.

There's something about the energy of opening night, and the energy of the kids—they potentiate each other. I just sit there, Quiet Mom, and soak it up. It's great. I'll miss it when it ends, four or five years from now. I guess some years later there will be grandkids, if they're near and if there are still such things as movie premieres.

As for HP7, I will probably be in all the local bookstores no more than two or three times a day starting June 26 ("They sold a copy!" "They moved it up a shelf!"), when my own novel hits stores. I'll probably get HP7 (TDH?) ordered before then, but by then if not.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by TheWagner »

Primula Baggins wrote:Actually, taking kids to movie openings is something of a hobby of mine. I brought masses of kids to all three LotR films and to the Star Wars prequels (guess which I enjoyed more), as well as to most of the Harry Potters.

There's something about the energy of opening night, and the energy of the kids—they potentiate each other. I just sit there, Quiet Mom, and soak it up. It's great. I'll miss it when it ends, four or five years from now. I guess some years later there will be grandkids, if they're near and if there are still such things as movie premieres.
Ah, I went to those things with my grad students. It was quite fun. However, those grad students all had their temerity to get the PhD's and leave me. My grad students now are so much younger than me that it seems kind of dodgey to hang out with them much. One recently made the comment that she loved the Harry Potter books "when I was a kid."

Ouch.

(The same would apply to the grad students of my former grad students, which hopefully are as close to grandkids as I'll ever have!)
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Post by Wildwood »

Prim! I know this is probably a dumb-ish question, but could you point me towards particulars of your book??? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D I'm nosy!
:D:D:D:D:D:D

As to grandkids, my first grandchild is due to arrive in 6-8 weeks, and was the reason for a midnight ambulance ride, in a snow storm, to the hospital last night. We feared premie labor...it was a bladder infection!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Life is what happens while you're making other plans! I can look forward to many more years of having kids to drag to premiers!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I'm not Prim, but I'll answer for her. 8)

Here is the thread about the book:

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=210

Because it is a looooonnnnnggg thread, here are a couple of posts with relevant information:

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/view ... 2363#42363

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/view ... 6596#56596

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/view ... 4573#64573
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Fooey, Voronwë! I was off at confirmation class with my daughter and you snuck in.

Thanks.

Wildwood, thank goodness for the false alarm! The more time to get ready, the better, I always say, or said until I had a baby who was more than two weeks late. :D

As for the book, I believe Voronwë has provided all the actual information there is in that humongous thread. The rest of it is me squeeing and hopping around. :D
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Post by Pearly Di »

I've pre-ordered a discounted copy of Deathly Hallows from Amazon UK so that it drops on my doormat on the day of publication. 8)

Then I'm going to retire to a desert island to read the thing. :D

One of my friends is going to Sectus, a big HP convention in the UK, right bang in the middle of publication. Can you imagine?

:rofl:

Also looking forward to the publication of Prim's novel! :)
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Post by TheWagner »

Pearly Di wrote:I've pre-ordered a discounted copy of Deathly Hallows from Amazon UK so that it drops on my doormat on the day of publication.
Well, Amazon usually is pretty reliable: but it took them a week to get my RotK EE to me! (First it got left at a shipping center; then the driver claimed that there was no such address even though FedEx sends a gazillion things to and from here each day; they sent it to the wrong museum!)

Pearly Di wrote:Then I'm going to retire to a desert island to read the thing.
Rowling said that she wants to keep it shorter than Order of the Phoenix. Still, that redefined bloated narrative, didn't it?


Pearly Di wrote:Also looking forward to the publication of Prim's novel!
Maybe I'll buy a copy for my wife!


So, some of you old-timers (grandkids? sheesh!) might remember the mass disappointment by Tolkien fans when The Silmarillion came out. It just did not address many of the things that we hoped it would, it was written completely differently from what we hoped it would be, etc. It seemed that none of the questions we were "sure" would be addressed were answered.

To what extent do people think that this will be true for Deathly Hallows? Given the number of "loose threads" that fans think exist, but that really are not loose threads (being issues that never arise in the books), I think that there is sure to be similar disappointment.
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Post by Alatar »

I'm not really expecting a masterpiece and all questions answered and I think anyone who does will be disappointed. If it achieves the same standard as the rest of the series and gives a satisfying conclusion I'll be happy.
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Post by Pearly Di »

TheWagner wrote:Rowling said that she wants to keep it shorter than Order of the Phoenix. Still, that redefined bloated narrative, didn't it?
:D Well, the problem with OotP isn't that it's too long ... it's just not very good.
So, some of you old-timers (grandkids? sheesh!) might remember the mass disappointment by Tolkien fans when The Silmarillion came out. It just did not address many of the things that we hoped it would, it was written completely differently from what we hoped it would be, etc. It seemed that none of the questions we were "sure" would be addressed were answered.
Heh, I was 15 when The Silmarillion was published and not yet a lifelong LOTR devotee, so that all passed me by. I avoided Sil for years after I read LOTR. Sil didn't have hobbitses! When I finally read it, I thought it was amazing.
Given the number of "loose threads" that fans think exist, but that really are not loose threads (being issues that never arise in the books), I think that there is sure to be similar disappointment.
Oh, no question. ;)
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Post by TheWagner »

Alatar wrote:I'm not really expecting a masterpiece and all questions answered...
Indeed, I think that these two are mutually exclusive! Chekov formulated his famous dictum for novels before he did it for plays: his phrase for plays just was a lot more catchy than the original! (Once again showing the importance of adaptation when crossing media...... 8)) Most of these things are not guns on any mantle: she has to fire quite a few that are there. Moreover, the converse of the dictum says don't fire guns that are not shown in advance. JKR's writing (with the exception of OotP) is very Chekovian: I expect her to keep it up.


Seriously, Rowling has a lot of plot left, and it has to be non-arbitrary. There are a few obvious ways to link quite a few things, but this just will not allow place for the questions of the sorts of which LotR fans peppered Tolkien until his death. If she did cram it all into the narrative, it obviously would not change the plot or the story: it would, however, harm the presentation of both greatly. So, a "tell all" book basically could not be a masterpiece.

Pearly Di wrote::D Well, the problem with OotP isn't that it's too long ... it's just not very good.
I would disagree with that, at least if you are talking about the story. In some ways, it was by far the most compelling story: Harry has to learn that choosing to isolate himself might be easy, but it's disastrous. The plot was a little flabby: it definitely read as if it was written in a rush, and had a few "Beren & Lúthien" style false starts. For example, there are two trips to the hospital, two break-ins at Umbridge's office, two desribed detentions, two breaking-ins of Snape's memories, etc. It definitely smacked of being hastily written: better self-editing and planning would have produced a tighter plot. (The same is true in my field: better planning yields more succinct outlining of the hypotheses and tests; worse planning yields rambling narratives of "I did X; that showed A; then I did Y; that showed B...")

It is the narrative in particular that was bad. It was not as if it was inconsistent or anything: JKR maintained a single protagonist third person subjective (I'm blanking on the term for that!) throughout. It was just that there were so many unneeded details and even chapters. There was no need for Lockhart, nor for The Woes of Mrs. Weasley.

To make matters worse, other parts were grossly underwritten. Marrietta Edgecombe was completely arbitrary as the grass. The whole relationship between Harry & Cho needed to fleshed out: 15-16 year olds don't hold each other's attentions that long without things happening in between. (I'm not young, but I remember that age: you go the party fancying one girl and wind up the evening mashing with a different one! Teenage hormonal attention spans usually are not long enough to get to the 3rd "D" of ADD.....)

Pearly Di wrote:Heh, I was 15 when The Silmarillion was published and not yet a lifelong LOTR devotee, so that all passed me by. I avoided Sil for years after I read LOTR. Sil didn't have hobbitses! When I finally read it, I thought it was amazing.
Ah, I think the lack of Hogwarts in Deathly Hallows (although I'm sure Harry will visit) will strike a similar chord. Indeed, a common complaint about Half-Blood Prince was that so little narrative was given to the doings in Harry's classes. Some of this represents legitimate (but erroneous) concerns: for example, we never read Harry learning the spells that he'll need to defeat Voldemort. (I deem this erroneous simply because if Hogwarts taught "Defeating Voldemort 101," then Voldemort really would not be much of a Dark-Lord; also, JKR's plots hang on Harry understanding some aspect of Choice, not on him memorizing an incantation: even the Patronus was a matter of will, not recitation.)

But, yes, I knew a few people who dropped the Sil. for a bad number once it became clear that there would be no Hobbits. I knew one person who was sure that the Old Took would be involved: no emphasis that the LotR Tale of the Years precluded this would sway him! Just like some fans hold out hope that JKR will change her mind about Harry returning to Hogwarts (well, the cat is in the box now, isn't it?), he held that Tolkien surely changed his mind as it just would not work without Hobbits!
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