Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows reviews (SPOILERS)

Post by **JewelSong** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:38 pm

I was pretty sure that was supposed to be Voldemort's soul...or his "chi" - his essence, if you will.

Harry and Dumbledore were fully formed in the "after-life" (or whatever it was.) But Voldemort was not and could never be. He had destroyed his own soul in his quest for power and the flayed infant was all that was left of his essence.

Again, I am struck by the spirituality of this last book.

Post by **Ellienor** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:40 pm

I agree with your thoughts of the strangely repellent infant in the train station, although I have to say I am scratching my head as to why it was there. I guess it was the piece of the soul in the lightning scar that "died" with Harry?

Also, I agree with Teremia, that the sorting hat placed on Neville's head, from which he pulled Gryffindor's sword, annoyed me. I mean, didn't V. remember the Gryffindor's sword getting pulled out of the hat before?

I mean, duh!

It was kind of cute though, that a Gryffindor can always pull the sword out of the sorting hat, doesn't just have to be Harry.

It's interesting how Rowling seems to venerate love in all forms as the antidote to evil. Including Snape's somewhat twisted love of Lilly. However, that one kind of pushes it for me. How could that have been hidden from Harry (and the rest of the Order) for so long? I mean, Sirius, Lupin, etc. would have known. Would have been another thing to jeer and torment Snape with. Plus, wasn't the chapter where Harry saw James Potter et al. turning Snape upside down, etc., entitled "Snape's Worst Memory"? I guess an argument could be made that it was what permanently turned Lily against Snape, so in that respect it was the worst, although when we read it we were intended to think that the humiliation was the worst memory. But I would think the worst memory would be to know that Lily was dead, courtesy of Snape's passing on the prophecy. Don't know. Will think about this one a bit more.

I too thought the epilogue was fake at first......I had spoiled myself with it last week. The dialogue was so banal! But as I thought about it, and the Albus Severus Potter (ASP), that Snape had been headmaster, it all made too much sense and yet was not predictable, I realized it was the true epilogue. Sadly.

Overall, though, THANKS, J.K., for a wonderful series and many hours of enjoyment.

Post by **Crucifer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:31 pm

Oh, and I only spotted one typo. There's a word mistakenly capitalized on page 735. (I don't go looking for these things. They jump out and attack me.)

GoF is full of 'em. Words missing, words spelled incorrectly, letters missing, inappropriate capitalization...

I assumed that the "baby" thingy was the bit of Toms soul that copped it.

Ironic really, that Tom destroyed a horcrux himself, and in doing so, destroyed the taint in Harry.

Post by **elfshadow** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:03 pm

I agree with jewelsong, I had supposed that the baby in King's Cross represented Voldemort. Remember in GoF, before he regained his fully human form, he took the shape of an ugly, evil-looking baby? That's how I imagined the baby in King's Cross to look.

ETA

ellienor wrote:I mean, didn't V. remember the Gryffindor's sword getting pulled out of the hat before?

Well, the last time Gryffindor's sword was pulled out of the sorting hat, it wasn't really Voldemort who was watching, right? It was Tom Riddle--and he was just a memory. He had the spirit of Voldemort and even the knowledge of Voldemort since he was a "captured" form of Voldemort at a younger age, but it wasn't actually Voldemort. At least that's what I understood...and I'm often wrong.

Post by **Crucifer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:11 pm

It was the diary horcrux that saw it last time, not the Tom that killed Harry. We already know that those bits of Tom's soul encased in the horcruxes are so separate that he can't feel it when one is destroyed. It follows on that he doesn't know what they have seen.

Post by **Túrin Turambar** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:18 pm

The baby in Kings' Cross is presumably the bit of Lord V's soul that was 'killed' with Harry.

Post by **Ellienor** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:38 pm

Well, the last time Gryffindor's sword was pulled out of the sorting hat, it wasn't really Voldemort who was watching, right? It was Tom Riddle--and he was just a memory. He had the spirit of Voldemort and even the knowledge of Voldemort since he was a "captured" form of Voldemort at a younger age, but it wasn't actually Voldemort. At least that's what I understood

I bow before the true Potter fans.

You're absolutely right. There's no reason that V. would have remembered that, since the souls in the Horcruxes don't communicate. D'oh!

Anyone else disappointed we find out nothing about James Potter's parents (and Harry's grandparents)? Or did we, and I missed it?

Post by **superwizard** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:39 pm

Anyone else disappointed we find out nothing about James Potter's parents (and Harry's grandparents)? Or did we, and I missed it?

Well we do know a bit about them don't we? They were Gryffindors and seemed to be genuinely nice people (remember Sirius said that they helped him out when he was 17 and that they were always very friendly?). They also clearly doted upon James when he was young (can be seen from the references to his state at the age of 11 in DH) and seemed to have been good normal parents.

I don't think there was anything too special about them...

Post by **Crucifer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:50 pm

Yeah, I think they were just normal magical folk.

Post by **Nin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:21 pm

Why did they not take Harry then?

Post by **Ellienor** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:29 pm

Exactly, Nin! Also, they wouldn't have been that old. James and Lilly were born in ..... 1960? And Harry was born in 1981? (forgetting the dates exactly). So, even if they were old when James was born (like, say 40), they would only have been 60ish. Also we see that Great Auntie Muriel is 107, so it seems unlikely that they died early......so where are they?

I can see why Harry had to go with Petunia because of the magical protection, but why aren't James' parents ever revealed? What about cousins, etc?

Ah well. Can't have everything, I guess.

Post by **Crucifer** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:59 pm

Perhaps Tom got them too...

Post by **superwizard** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:21 pm

I'm pretty sure they were dead by the time of Harry's birth. I can't remember but doesn't Dumbledore mention once the his Aunt was his only living relative or was that only from his mother's side? Plus him living in a wizarding house just wouldn't have worked...

Post by **Crucifer** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:23 pm

Dumbledore says:

They (The Dursleys) are the only family he has left.

Post by **Túrin Turambar** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:08 pm

JKR has said that James' parents were dead by the time he died.

Post by **TheWagner** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:21 am

Lord_Morningstar wrote:
superwizard wrote: After the break into the Ministry however the book took a turn in my opinion. I didn't really like this part of the book at all and I really saw no need for the whole Ron storming off at all! The whole gloominess and hopelessness was too much for me personally.
My thoughts exactly – the middle suffers from a lot of unnecessary diversions.

My problem was with the unneeded diversion. Thematically, I did like the gloomy hopelessness: Potterverse is just as dystopian as the real world.

elfshadow wrote:I agree with jewelsong, I had supposed that the baby in King's Cross represented Voldemort. Remember in GoF, before he regained his fully human form, he took the shape of an ugly, evil-looking baby? That's how I imagined the baby in King's Cross to look.

Was that Voldemort entirely, or the fragment that went with Harry?

I had assumed the latter, but it would be more powerful if it was the former.

Lord_Morningstar wrote:JKR has said that James' parents were dead by the time he died.

Yup: she needed them out of the way.

superwizard wrote:Yes but honestly after being Harry's rival for 6 books I was expecting more. a lot more.

From a literary perspective, I think that we did get a lot more. Instead of conversion or persistent baddy, we get a man who seems to be completely stuck in the middle. In the end, it seems that Draco cannot side with anybody. His parents do not even fight: they just look for their son.

I had expected Draco to die by being caught in the middle and being unable to decide who he hated more: Harry or Voldemort. Instead, he was caught in the middle but survived. I wonder if that was not a worse fate!

Overall, this was a really good story. It did suffer from some idiot plots with the Horcrux locations, and Rowling really dropped the ball on Ginny: Rowling "Arwened" Ginny when she needed to be "Eowynized." However, the deaths and Snape's Tale made the whole thing worth it.

Post by **Impenitent** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:04 am

TheWagner wrote:
elfshadow wrote:I agree with jewelsong, I had supposed that the baby in King's Cross represented Voldemort. Remember in GoF, before he regained his fully human form, he took the shape of an ugly, evil-looking baby? That's how I imagined the baby in King's Cross to look.
Was that Voldemort entirely, or the fragment that went with Harry?

I had assumed the latter, but it would be more powerful if it was the former.

I think it was the fragment in the scar, because by killing Harry he destroys his own soul-fragment. Yet at the time Harry comes back apparently all the Death Eaters are surrounding Voldemort who has obviously either been unconscious or ... dead?

I'm not sure why that would be, as only that soul-fragment in the scar would die with Harry - all the other Horcruxes were completely separate from the fragment that remained within Voldemort and I see no reason why this one would be any different.

And yet the mortal attack on Harry did affect Voldemort...perhaps because of Harry's blood within him? There's a double connection. Perhaps it was the fragment within Voldemort, that had no choice but to go with Harry because of the blood connection, and then returned when Harry did.

Though that doesn't really work, because if that were the case Harry would not have been required to return and force the final showdown to Voldemort's destruction.

No...on final thought, I think it was the bit in the Horcrux.

(And I can't believe I'm discussing this seriously. I found so much of the book lacking that I feel quite unmotivated by it).

Post by **Crucifer** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:19 am

Voldmort is knocked unconcious because of the blood in him that belongs to Harry. That's what I got from it, because if it was a soul fragment, it would have happened each time a horcrux was destroyes.

Post by **Pearly Di** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:31 am

TheWagner wrote:I had expected Draco to die by being caught in the middle and being unable to decide who he hated more: Harry or Voldemort. Instead, he was caught in the middle but survived. I wonder if that was not a worse fate!

Ah now, Draco has become an ordinary bloke by the end.

That's what I think. The Malfoys have diminished and gone into the West, their power broken. I see an awful lot in that curt nod of Draco's. I'm tellin ya.

Overall, this was a really good story. It did suffer from some idiot plots with the Horcrux locations, and Rowling really dropped the ball on Ginny: Rowling "Arwened" Ginny when she needed to be "Eowynized." However, the deaths and Snape's Tale made the whole thing worth it.

The Wagner, I really enjoy your comments

but you and I are clearly not going to agree on Ginny.

Frankly, I'm relieved Rowling "Arwened" Ginny in DH because the "Eowynization" of Ginny in HBP failed to convince me! It's not the "Eowynization" I object to, btw - it's the way Rowling writes it. The kid's 16. She ain't Superwoman. But suddenly she's this amazingly beautiful, amazingly brave, amazingly sexy, amazingly self-controlled heroine who always does the right thing.

I'm sorry, but enough already.

If David Yates, who will direct HBP, can handle Ginny's magical transformation from Endearing Little Dork into one of the biggest Mary Sues of all time, then all power to him.

His handling of Ginny in OotP gave me some hope ...

Post by **superwizard** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:42 pm

Well I've been thinking about something for a while now. Harry, Ron and Hermione never did their 7th year and they never took their Newts. I remember in some previous book most jobs they looked at required Newts right? So what do you think they did? Did they go back to Hogwarts or take the Newts without actually studying the last year or did they just not do them? Maybe Ron would be ok with a low end job but Hermione? I dont think so...