Some artwork - feedback appreciated

[Breogán]

[notice: I split the first five posts in this thread from the Welcome thread - hobby
Bre, feel free to change the title of the thread to whatever you'd prefer to my choice]


Yes, I know but thanks for noticing
That means is the latest piece of artwork submitted to Torc's gallery - nothing more

I am currently uploading some of my work to my gallery here. Right now it's just some of my ME/Tolkien related work. But i will upload some some more later on (general, SW, WOD, HP... ) I will make sure that portrait of Karl is there ... as long as you remember he's mine and mine only - I regret not having asked Viggo for Karl's number...
(was that the one "in chains" or with his jeans unbuttoned?... cant remember right now)

[Sunsilver]

Do you have any pictures of Viggo/Aragorn? :D:D:D

I'd like to see those as well!

[Breogán]

No, I'm sorry
I am not interested in drawing or painting the characters from the film trilogy. Karl is the one exception, and only because he serves my darkest purposes , being my inspiration for a WoD character
I will let you know if I change my mind

Btw, the infamous "sent-him-to-my-tent" drawing is up now

[Alatar]

Breogán, can you tell me a bit about how you created these? Do you use photographic elements?

[Breogán]

Hi Alatar

Not sure what you mean with "photographic elements", so I will tell you what tools I use for my "artwork".
I mainly use Corel Painter and Photoshop CS2 for my painting - for some reason people always assume Photoshop is only intended for photography, while truth is PS is the best 2D painting tool, so versatile that allows you replicate traditional media.
I start with a pencil sketch, scan it and do all the colouring and effects with the applications I listed above. Having said so, I sometimes use photographs as visual reference for specific things such a particular piece of clothing or the likes. If you have a look at the HP "Quidditch star", the quidditch robes my depiction of Viktor Krum wears are very similar to the ones he wears in the film - I liked them, so I used them as reference and painted the same ones, changing and adding a few things that in my opinion improved them - I wanted to make it look like Adidas quidditch gear I love Adidas

[Frelga]

(was that the one "in chains" or with his jeans unbuttoned?... cant remember right now)

I think it was the one in chains, but can we see both of them please? Wouldn't want to make a mistake here.

[Alatar]

Thats very impressive Breogán. I would have sworn you were using photographs for the faces, either as reference or indeed inserted and manipulated. The likeness of Truehobbit is startlingly good.

[Breogán]

You would have sworn that and you would have been wrong

Hobby actually sent me a photograph of herself for visual reference since we havent seen each other in years. The rest of the process is the same, sketching in pencil, scanning and working with Painter and PS.

[truehobbit]

Well, for reference, as you said, Alatar (from what I understand).

We had a look at some photographs, and finally found one where the expression was something Bre could work on.
As if it wasn't hard enough to imagine my glasses away, in most pics I'm grinning widely - which is good for me, but it's rather hard for an artist to imagine what the face muscles are like when they are relaxed.

So, it's like sitting to have your portrait taken, I think. When you sit, you also try to wear the expression the artist means to take. And as I couldn't do that, we picked a suitable photo.
Though a little trip to Spain to sit for Bre in person sounds like an excellent idea, too...

[WampusCat]

Outstanding work! Thank you for posting these.

[Breogán]

I don't know if you guys are aware that a lot of professional illustrators and concept artists do use "visual references" for their work - which is something artists have been doing for centuries, having models pose for them, going out of their studios to paint live scenes or landscapes.

Wampus cat

Thanks

[Primula Baggins]

I've been meaning to post that your work is beautiful, Bre. You manage to create incredible realism without the "feel" that this is a photo. And I like the non-film faces for Tolkien's characters. In recent years I think we've all gotten too used to seeing just certain actors' faces instead.

Though that can be very nice, as you also demonstrate.

[Alatar]

It was meant as a compliment Breogán. Yes, they look good enough to be photoshopped photos. And working from a photo as visual reference is far from cheating. We were recently discussing Boris Vallejo and Frank Frazetta who used photographic reference for most of their work, as did the Hildebrandts (not that I like their stuff, but it bears mentioning).

In other words, you are very gifted.

[yovargas]

I thought hobby's pic looked like a modified photo too.

[truehobbit]

Bre, I think there's no criticism involved in pointing out there's a visual reference.
Like I said, normally people sit for an artist - so, that's pretty similar to using a photo of the person.

Artists also use little dolls to simulate posture of the human body, and there are all sorts of perspective devices that have been around since the Renaissance. Aids of this kind are as normal as brush and colour themselves.

And ever since that Vasari guy came up with the thought, it's been the idea , the design, that counts for us in art, isn't it?

But it's also normal, if something is stunningly good, to ask: how did you do that?

[Primula Baggins]

In the United States, anyway, there's also a lot of commercial art such as book covers that is "based on photos" in the sense that the artist starts with the photo on his computer screen and modifies it, adds background, etc. I learned this when the cover for my science fiction novel puzzled me: in the big file the publisher sent me, I could see tiny details such as patches on a uniform that were wrong for the story. I wondered why the artist had bothered to paint them in, especially as they wouldn't even show on the cover. Whistler set me straight: they were models in rented costumes.

[Breogán]

I did not take offence in any comment
I just wanted to make clear that my work is not the result of photomanipulation but of a different process, that is digital painting.
As I once told Truehobbit, I understand that for those not - let's say -"versed" on digital art it is sometimes difficult to know what is what and understand the basic differences between digital painting and photo-manipulation.
I have no problem with using visual references when necessary, such in the case of Hobbit's painting, since this was not a character out of my imagination but the depiction of a real person, that I haven't seen in years.
Summing up, I did not take it as a criticism but as a misunderstanding of what my work is really all about

Also, I must add, I am a bit frustrated about all this - I am trying to go pro and it's not an easy thing to do. It's all about sending portfolios with your best works and waiting for a reply that never comes. On top of that, the world of "illustrators" is quite rough, with a lot of people just being plain nasty and far from helpful. You have to fight daily against that feeling of "why bothering?" and keep trying to improve and hone your skills when all you feel like doing is walking away. Summing up, I am frustrated, and tired and well, you get the idea. Apologies if my replies have sounded dry or just plain harsh, I didnt take it as criticism, but i guess my frustration just showed up

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at my work and post your feedback - that is really a great thing you have done for me and I can only feel grateful for that

Primula,
Yes, I perfectly know what you're talking about, it's could be considered as "photomanipulation", but then you have manips and works of art .
One of guys I know from an art site does that for a living. He starts with a photograph and paints and merges images and adds photographic filters and light effects... his work is outstanding and top class. People with those skills and talent deserve great praising even if they start with a photograph.

[Primula Baggins]

Oh, absolutely. The commercial art I'm talking about is a bit perfunctory, but an artist can create art out of anything.

I sympathize strongly with the frustrations of "going pro"—it took me ten years of work and revisions and submissions and resubmissions to sell my first novel. I wonder if it's the same way in illustrating as it is in writing—the "gatekeepers," the people with the power to buy your work, are often overwhelmed with hopeless junk and sometimes seem to have trouble recognizing quality work when it comes in. And as you say, they are not always nice to people who come close.

In writing, anyway, persistence and a thick skin take you much farther than talent alone. But it's still hugely frustrating.

[Breogán]

Thanks, Prim, it's always a good thing to come across someone who really understands where you're coming from. Of course I don't mean we are the only ones to know what frustration feels like, unfortunately is quite a common feeling
I am perfectly aware there are people out there with faaaaar greater talent and skills, skills i will never be able to match, but then there are a lot of people out there whose work is worse than mine and they are actually making a living of their art. I know that's the way life is, but I am not going to pretend that doesn't frustrate me even more.
I am working as concept artist for a Tolkien RTS game, it's a hobbyist project but its quality is outstanding, as RTS games go - our sister project, the one we are basing our game on, is doing ground-breaking work and their game engine works as a charm. I am happy doing this for free, because drawing and painting is my life, and I cant help but dreaming one day I'll be able to make a living out of it, but I also know that dreams do not always come true, and that "fanart" will probably be the furthest I will go.

Alatar, I didn't know about the Hildebrant brothers , but then I truly dislike most of their artwork, so I have paid very little attention to it. I dont mean they were not good artists, but their vision of Tolkien's world just looks ridiculous to me, although I see it as a result of the visual conception of fanstasy worlds of the 70's (having said so I adore their work for SW, the original poster for A New Hope ... but I am an unrepentant SW addict )

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Bre, if you want it enough, you will get it, eventually. Look at Prim's example. She is certainly an inspiration.

And you certainly have the talent and the dedications.